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Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 08:12:01 -0400
Reply-To: List Moderator <ecgrants**At_Symbol_Here**UVM.EDU>
Sender: DCHAS-L Discussion List <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU>
From: List Moderator <ecgrants**At_Symbol_Here**UVM.EDU>
Subject: 12 Re: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods?
Here is a compilation of yesterday's responses to my inquiry about
trends in class lab ventilation practices. My sense of the responses
is that the 21st approach to class lab design is to throw lots of air
at the situation. It will be interesting to see what we think of this
as campuses start putting together Climate Action Plans that fulfill
the President's Climate Commitment to achieve carbon neutrality
someday...
http://www.presidentsclimatecommitment.org/
Thanks for all who replied.
- Ralph
From: Derek Fultz
Date: April 7, 2009 9:39:28 AM EDT (CA)
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods?
Our new Organic Teaching Laboratories have a small Ventilated Work
Station for each pair of non-majors, and a full 5ft. hood for each of
the students in the majors course. We're having the same debate as we
look to renovating our General Chemistry laboratories. I'd be
interested in hearing the responses you get.
-Derek
Derek R. Fultz
Director of Operations, Safety, and Compliance
Department of Chemistry
University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
306 Noyes Laboratory, MC-712
505 South Mathews Ave.
Urbana Illinois 61801
Office Phone:217-265-0294
Cell Phone: 217-369-8924
===
=0CFrom: "Caldwell, Charles D"
Date: April 7, 2009 9:41:10 AM EDT (CA)
Subject: RE: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods?
Our building remodel was completed in 2000. For General,
Introductory, and Forensic labs the rooms have 3 hoods for up to 24
students per section. For the experiments we do this is entirely
adequate.
For synthesis labs (Organic, Inorganic) the room has 12 double hoods.
Theoretically this could handle 24 students working individually, but
we usually use 1 or 2 hoods for the setups. These days students
usually work in pairs so that is not a problem.
Regards,
Chuck
Charles D. Caldwell, Ph.D.
Laboratory Coordinator
Chemistry Department
Colorado State University-Pueblo
2200 Bonforte Blvd
Pueblo, CO 81001
719-549-2411
===
=0CFrom: "Kevin Burns"
Date: April 7, 2009 10:05:47 AM EDT (CA)
To: "Ralph Stuart"
Subject: RE: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods?
I work at Alvernia University in Reading PA. Our science center
recently opened in the fall of 2006. It is a two story building with
five labs on each floor. Three rooms are classroom/lab combinations
and the other two are just labs. The lab/classroom combinations have
24 student desk in the front of the room for lecture and the back of
the room has six lab benches, 24 lab stools and 6 extra large fume
hoods to each accommodate 4 students.
Hope this helps
K. Burns
Director of Science Laboratory Services and Safety
Dept. of Science & Math
Alvernia University
===
=0CFrom: Allen Aloise
Date: April 7, 2009 10:21:35 AM EDT (CA)
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods?
At Harvard we have 2 students per fume hood in introductory organic
labs and 1 student per fume hood in advanced labs. I believe we would
aim to keep a 2 student per fume hood ratio in future renovations.
I hope all is well.
Best,
Allen
-----------------------------------------------------------
Allen Aloise, Ph.D.
Science Safety Officer
Department of Chemistry and Chemical Biology
Harvard University
12 Oxford St.
Cambridge, MA 02138
617-496-8285 (office)
617-495-8013 (fax)
===
=0CFrom: "Peacy, William"
Date: April 7, 2009 10:23:41 AM EDT (CA)
Subject: RE: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods?
We just opened our dedicated new Health and Science Building and it
will open this summer. The design has the general and organic chem
working in the hoods. The gen chem works in pairs and org is
individual. GOB and liberal arts chems still work on the benchtops
with some hoods available. When you design the labs, the hoods will be
one of the most expensive, if not the most expensive part of the design.
William "Bill" Peacy
Assistant Professor, Chemistry
College of DuPage, Rm. IC 3005b
425 Fawell Blvd.
Glen Ellyn, IL 60137
(630) 942-2486
Fax: (630) 942-2759
===
=0CFrom: "Carl Fictorie"
Date: April 7, 2009 10:25:59 AM EDT (CA)
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods?
Ralph,
We are about 8 years into a planning process for new chemistry and
biology facilities, and we are planning for enough hoods in the
chemistry labs for each student pair, in all of our labs. We have
made substantial use of Project Kaleidescope (http://www.pkal.org/),
and you will find descriptions of a large number of projects on their
site. I can't think of any exceptions to the above rule in chemistry,
although it is not followed as rigorously for biology, physics, or
general science courses.
I've toured several new and renovated college facilities in our area
(mainly NW Iowa), and all the projects have had at least one hood per
pair. My discussions with the engineering firm that we have been
working with suggest that the trend will continue, and that the major
question is energy efficiency and management. As I understand it,
building codes require that if a hood is present, it is supposed to
run 24/7, although low flow settings are permissible. Us academic
types think that at night or over breaks when the lab is not in use we
should be able to turn hoods off.
I would be interesting in hearing about any exceptions that you learn
about with respect to this question.
CPF
Carl Fictorie, Ph.D. email:
fictorie**At_Symbol_Here**dordt.edu
Professor of Chemistry phone:
712-722-6283
Chemistry Department fax 712-722-6336
Dordt College
http://homepages.dordt.edu/~fictorie/
498 4th Ave. NE
Sioux Center, IA 51250-1697
===
=0CFrom: "Samuella B. Sigmann"
Date: April 7, 2009 11:14:39 AM EDT (CA)
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods?
Hi Ralph - We have two teaching labs for the organic classes. Each
lab has 10 hoods. With 2 students per hood, and one for reagents, the
set up works well for 18 students. I would definitely have a way to
shut them down when labs were not running (for energy reasons). We do
not have that ability, so we are wasting a lot of energy. Our
building is 10 years old.
Sammye
Don=92t always believe what you think.
Samuella B. Sigmann, NRCC-CHO
Lecturer/Safety Committee Chair
A. R. Smith Department of Chemistry
Appalachian State University
525 Rivers Street
Boone, NC 28608
Phone: 828 262 2755
Fax: 828 262 6558
Email: sigmannsb**At_Symbol_Here**appstate.edu
===
=0CFrom: Anne Skinner
Date: April 7, 2009 12:13:46 PM EDT (CA)
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods?
For what it is worth -- we have a ratio of one fume hood for 2
students in organic chem, and one for 3 students in general chem.
Anne
/O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\
Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si
\O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/
Dr. Anne Skinner
Chemistry Department, Williams College
47 Lab Campus Drive
Williamstown, MA 01267
anne.r.skinner**At_Symbol_Here**williams.edu
Phone: (413) 597-2285
Fax No: (413) 597-4116
===
=0CFrom: "Yaeger, Mary Ann"
Date: April 7, 2009 1:56:29 PM EDT (CA)
Subject: RE: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods?
In our Organic labs we currently have bench top hoods for each student
pair, as well as two larger hoods in each lab. We are having one lab
updated over the summer and installing island workbenches. One hood
will hang over each island and be accessible from all sides so that
two pairs can work under it. Then we will have 3 larger hoods with
sashes in the lab also, and one will be handicap accessible.
MaryAnn
MaryAnn Yaeger
Supervisor of Laboratory Services, CHO
Wesley College
120 N. State Street
Dover, DE 19901
phone (302) 736-2389
Fax (302) 736-2301
===
=0CFrom: "David C. Finster"
Date: April 7, 2009 3:39:10 PM EDT (CA)
Subject: RE: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods?
I can relate our experience, (the underlying wisdom of which is open
to scrutiny.)
We built new introductory and organic chemistry labs four years ago.
In the organic labs we have 8-foot hoods with double sashes; each
student gets 4 feet of lab space. This has worked out well. All of
the hoods are located on walls in order to avoid having hoods in the
"middle of labs" which destroy sight lines (which is a safety issue,
in our judgment). The "all hoods on walls" is an architectural
challenge, especially if windows are desired for aesthetic reasons.
We managed, successfully, we think.
In our introductory labs I did careful assessment of our year's worth
of experiments and determined that having students work in fume hoods
was actually rather uncommon. Thus, we opted for eight 6-foot hoods
in labs designed for 32 students. Students always work in, at least,
pairs and we are moving toward more group/cooperative experiments with
4 or even 8 students per group (with various assigned tasks.) Since
the experiments that do require work inside hoods are not particularly
space-intensive it has been possible to have two pairs of students
work in a single 6-foot hood without problems. (Four students would
never actually be trying to perform manipulations in a single hood at
a given moment in time.) The duty cycle on this configuration is low
and has seemed a very reasonable situation.
As more Green Chemistry experiments enter the curriculum, the needs
for hoods may decrease. The point of this comment is not to predict
the disappearance of hoods (!!) but to suggest that given the capital
and maintenance costs of hoods, it is best to have as few as possible
so long as safety is not compromised. In organic labs, hoods are
obviously required, and likely so for every experiment performed. For
us, in introductory chemistry labs we chose to have "enough" hoods to
allow all students access to a hood (perhaps with the level of
"crowding" that would be unacceptable on a weekly basis) when the
chemistry demanded hood use, but we traded this off against the use of
the space for other purposes (as well as recognizing the capital and
maintenance costs of hoods).
The "three hoods for 18 students" might be OK, depending upon duty
cycle and other nuances. Even during a given lab, it may be possible
to stagger the need for using hoods if the hood is needed for only a
short period of time. I think it would be pretty hard to determine
the correction student-to-hood ratio without understanding the details
of a particular lab curriculum. Of course, under-engineering a lab
with regard to some future, desired curriculum would be unfortunate.
Since the hoods will also be the source of room air changes/hour, this
need to taken into consideration.
Dave
David C. Finster
Professor, Department of Chemistry
University Chemical Hygiene Officer
Wittenberg University
937-327-6441
http://userpages.wittenberg.edu/dfinster/index.html
===
=0CFrom: "Tan Khai Seng"
Date: April 7, 2009 8:40:38 PM EDT (CA)
Subject: RE: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods?
Hi Ralph
Greetings from Singapore.
I'm not sure if anyone replied to your posting. Here's some of our
experiences with fumehoods for teaching lab.
We have renovated our teaching labs, particularly our synthesis
teaching lab back in 2003. We have moved from the open bench with some
shared fumehoods to a full fumehood design. Every student has a 1m
basic fumehood known as the school fumehood. Common chemicals and
other setups for the lab are located in larger fumehood by the side of
the lab. i have attached a picture of the lab. We are quite happy with
the performance of the fumehood and we are likely to stick to such
design in any future lab design.
with this design, there is no sharing of fumehood. we don't have to
worry about students performing incompatitible work. In the event of
any screwups which we have see a fair number, any spillage will be
contained within each fumehood. This also allow for a wider range of
experiments to be performed in the lab since everyone have their own
fumehood. Due to space shortage, we have tried running 2 different lab
classes in the lab without much problem.
However this design will not be energy efficient. The fumehoods are
basic constant air velocity fumehood, each cluster of fumehoods are
linked to a common extractor fan, thus the whole cluster will be turn
on in order to use one. this will be a headache with HVAC. as far as
i'm aware, for another university in singapore which i was involved in
the design, they were eventually forced to reduce the face velocity to
reduce the energy cost.
Just let me know if you need more information.
I'll be happy to share with you our experience.
KS
===
=0CFrom: "Klotz, Ann"
Date: April 7, 2009 9:18:58 PM EDT (CA)
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods?
Our classroom laboratory enrollment is 16 students. The chemistry
classroom laboratories have nine hoods with one used for each pair of
students and one used for dispensing volatile reagents and waste.
The building is 7 years old. With more emphasis on student projects,
I find that the hoods are almost always in use.
--
Ann Klotz
School of Science
Siena College
515 Loudon Road
Loudonville, NY 12211-1462
Office Phone: 518-783-2402
Cell Phone 518-860-8489
Siena College is a learning community advancing the ideals of a
liberal arts education, rooted in its identity as a Franciscan and
Catholic institution.
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