Here is a compilation of yesterday's responses to my inquiry about trends in class lab ventilation practices. My sense of the responses is that the 21st approach to class lab design is to throw lots of air at the situation. It will be interesting to see what we think of this as campuses start putting together Climate Action Plans that fulfill the President's Climate Commitment to achieve carbon neutrality someday... http://www.presidentsclimatecommitment.org/ Thanks for all who replied. - Ralph From: Derek Fultz
Date: April 7, 2009 9:39:28 AM EDT (CA) Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods? Our new Organic Teaching Laboratories have a small Ventilated Work Station for each pair of non-majors, and a full 5ft. hood for each of the students in the majors course. We're having the same debate as we look to renovating our General Chemistry laboratories. I'd be interested in hearing the responses you get. -Derek Derek R. Fultz Director of Operations, Safety, and Compliance Department of Chemistry University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign 306 Noyes Laboratory, MC-712 505 South Mathews Ave. Urbana Illinois 61801 Office Phone:217-265-0294 Cell Phone: 217-369-8924 === =0CFrom: "Caldwell, Charles D" Date: April 7, 2009 9:41:10 AM EDT (CA) Subject: RE: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods? Our building remodel was completed in 2000. For General, Introductory, and Forensic labs the rooms have 3 hoods for up to 24 students per section. For the experiments we do this is entirely adequate. For synthesis labs (Organic, Inorganic) the room has 12 double hoods. Theoretically this could handle 24 students working individually, but we usually use 1 or 2 hoods for the setups. These days students usually work in pairs so that is not a problem. Regards, Chuck Charles D. Caldwell, Ph.D. Laboratory Coordinator Chemistry Department Colorado State University-Pueblo 2200 Bonforte Blvd Pueblo, CO 81001 719-549-2411 === =0CFrom: "Kevin Burns" Date: April 7, 2009 10:05:47 AM EDT (CA) To: "Ralph Stuart" Subject: RE: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods? I work at Alvernia University in Reading PA. Our science center recently opened in the fall of 2006. It is a two story building with five labs on each floor. Three rooms are classroom/lab combinations and the other two are just labs. The lab/classroom combinations have 24 student desk in the front of the room for lecture and the back of the room has six lab benches, 24 lab stools and 6 extra large fume hoods to each accommodate 4 students. Hope this helps K. Burns Director of Science Laboratory Services and Safety Dept. of Science & Math Alvernia University === =0CFrom: Allen Aloise Date: April 7, 2009 10:21:35 AM EDT (CA) Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods? At Harvard we have 2 students per fume hood in introductory organic labs and 1 student per fume hood in advanced labs. I believe we would aim to keep a 2 student per fume hood ratio in future renovations. I hope all is well. Best, Allen ----------------------------------------------------------- Allen Aloise, Ph.D. Science Safety Officer Department of Chemistry and Chemical Biology Harvard University 12 Oxford St. Cambridge, MA 02138 617-496-8285 (office) 617-495-8013 (fax) === =0CFrom: "Peacy, William" Date: April 7, 2009 10:23:41 AM EDT (CA) Subject: RE: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods? We just opened our dedicated new Health and Science Building and it will open this summer. The design has the general and organic chem working in the hoods. The gen chem works in pairs and org is individual. GOB and liberal arts chems still work on the benchtops with some hoods available. When you design the labs, the hoods will be one of the most expensive, if not the most expensive part of the design. William "Bill" Peacy Assistant Professor, Chemistry College of DuPage, Rm. IC 3005b 425 Fawell Blvd. Glen Ellyn, IL 60137 (630) 942-2486 Fax: (630) 942-2759 === =0CFrom: "Carl Fictorie" Date: April 7, 2009 10:25:59 AM EDT (CA) Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods? Ralph, We are about 8 years into a planning process for new chemistry and biology facilities, and we are planning for enough hoods in the chemistry labs for each student pair, in all of our labs. We have made substantial use of Project Kaleidescope (http://www.pkal.org/), and you will find descriptions of a large number of projects on their site. I can't think of any exceptions to the above rule in chemistry, although it is not followed as rigorously for biology, physics, or general science courses. I've toured several new and renovated college facilities in our area (mainly NW Iowa), and all the projects have had at least one hood per pair. My discussions with the engineering firm that we have been working with suggest that the trend will continue, and that the major question is energy efficiency and management. As I understand it, building codes require that if a hood is present, it is supposed to run 24/7, although low flow settings are permissible. Us academic types think that at night or over breaks when the lab is not in use we should be able to turn hoods off. I would be interesting in hearing about any exceptions that you learn about with respect to this question. CPF Carl Fictorie, Ph.D. email: fictorie**At_Symbol_Here**dordt.edu Professor of Chemistry phone: 712-722-6283 Chemistry Department fax 712-722-6336 Dordt College http://homepages.dordt.edu/~fictorie/ 498 4th Ave. NE Sioux Center, IA 51250-1697 === =0CFrom: "Samuella B. Sigmann" Date: April 7, 2009 11:14:39 AM EDT (CA) Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods? Hi Ralph - We have two teaching labs for the organic classes. Each lab has 10 hoods. With 2 students per hood, and one for reagents, the set up works well for 18 students. I would definitely have a way to shut them down when labs were not running (for energy reasons). We do not have that ability, so we are wasting a lot of energy. Our building is 10 years old. Sammye Don=92t always believe what you think. Samuella B. Sigmann, NRCC-CHO Lecturer/Safety Committee Chair A. R. Smith Department of Chemistry Appalachian State University 525 Rivers Street Boone, NC 28608 Phone: 828 262 2755 Fax: 828 262 6558 Email: sigmannsb**At_Symbol_Here**appstate.edu === =0CFrom: Anne Skinner Date: April 7, 2009 12:13:46 PM EDT (CA) Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods? For what it is worth -- we have a ratio of one fume hood for 2 students in organic chem, and one for 3 students in general chem. Anne /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ /O\ Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si Si \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ \O/ Dr. Anne Skinner Chemistry Department, Williams College 47 Lab Campus Drive Williamstown, MA 01267 anne.r.skinner**At_Symbol_Here**williams.edu Phone: (413) 597-2285 Fax No: (413) 597-4116 === =0CFrom: "Yaeger, Mary Ann" Date: April 7, 2009 1:56:29 PM EDT (CA) Subject: RE: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods? In our Organic labs we currently have bench top hoods for each student pair, as well as two larger hoods in each lab. We are having one lab updated over the summer and installing island workbenches. One hood will hang over each island and be accessible from all sides so that two pairs can work under it. Then we will have 3 larger hoods with sashes in the lab also, and one will be handicap accessible. MaryAnn MaryAnn Yaeger Supervisor of Laboratory Services, CHO Wesley College 120 N. State Street Dover, DE 19901 phone (302) 736-2389 Fax (302) 736-2301 === =0CFrom: "David C. Finster" Date: April 7, 2009 3:39:10 PM EDT (CA) Subject: RE: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods? I can relate our experience, (the underlying wisdom of which is open to scrutiny.) We built new introductory and organic chemistry labs four years ago. In the organic labs we have 8-foot hoods with double sashes; each student gets 4 feet of lab space. This has worked out well. All of the hoods are located on walls in order to avoid having hoods in the "middle of labs" which destroy sight lines (which is a safety issue, in our judgment). The "all hoods on walls" is an architectural challenge, especially if windows are desired for aesthetic reasons. We managed, successfully, we think. In our introductory labs I did careful assessment of our year's worth of experiments and determined that having students work in fume hoods was actually rather uncommon. Thus, we opted for eight 6-foot hoods in labs designed for 32 students. Students always work in, at least, pairs and we are moving toward more group/cooperative experiments with 4 or even 8 students per group (with various assigned tasks.) Since the experiments that do require work inside hoods are not particularly space-intensive it has been possible to have two pairs of students work in a single 6-foot hood without problems. (Four students would never actually be trying to perform manipulations in a single hood at a given moment in time.) The duty cycle on this configuration is low and has seemed a very reasonable situation. As more Green Chemistry experiments enter the curriculum, the needs for hoods may decrease. The point of this comment is not to predict the disappearance of hoods (!!) but to suggest that given the capital and maintenance costs of hoods, it is best to have as few as possible so long as safety is not compromised. In organic labs, hoods are obviously required, and likely so for every experiment performed. For us, in introductory chemistry labs we chose to have "enough" hoods to allow all students access to a hood (perhaps with the level of "crowding" that would be unacceptable on a weekly basis) when the chemistry demanded hood use, but we traded this off against the use of the space for other purposes (as well as recognizing the capital and maintenance costs of hoods). The "three hoods for 18 students" might be OK, depending upon duty cycle and other nuances. Even during a given lab, it may be possible to stagger the need for using hoods if the hood is needed for only a short period of time. I think it would be pretty hard to determine the correction student-to-hood ratio without understanding the details of a particular lab curriculum. Of course, under-engineering a lab with regard to some future, desired curriculum would be unfortunate. Since the hoods will also be the source of room air changes/hour, this need to taken into consideration. Dave David C. Finster Professor, Department of Chemistry University Chemical Hygiene Officer Wittenberg University 937-327-6441 http://userpages.wittenberg.edu/dfinster/index.html === =0CFrom: "Tan Khai Seng" Date: April 7, 2009 8:40:38 PM EDT (CA) Subject: RE: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods? Hi Ralph Greetings from Singapore. I'm not sure if anyone replied to your posting. Here's some of our experiences with fumehoods for teaching lab. We have renovated our teaching labs, particularly our synthesis teaching lab back in 2003. We have moved from the open bench with some shared fumehoods to a full fumehood design. Every student has a 1m basic fumehood known as the school fumehood. Common chemicals and other setups for the lab are located in larger fumehood by the side of the lab. i have attached a picture of the lab. We are quite happy with the performance of the fumehood and we are likely to stick to such design in any future lab design. with this design, there is no sharing of fumehood. we don't have to worry about students performing incompatitible work. In the event of any screwups which we have see a fair number, any spillage will be contained within each fumehood. This also allow for a wider range of experiments to be performed in the lab since everyone have their own fumehood. Due to space shortage, we have tried running 2 different lab classes in the lab without much problem. However this design will not be energy efficient. The fumehoods are basic constant air velocity fumehood, each cluster of fumehoods are linked to a common extractor fan, thus the whole cluster will be turn on in order to use one. this will be a headache with HVAC. as far as i'm aware, for another university in singapore which i was involved in the design, they were eventually forced to reduce the face velocity to reduce the energy cost. Just let me know if you need more information. I'll be happy to share with you our experience. KS === =0CFrom: "Klotz, Ann" Date: April 7, 2009 9:18:58 PM EDT (CA) Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Class lab fume hoods? Our classroom laboratory enrollment is 16 students. The chemistry classroom laboratories have nine hoods with one used for each pair of students and one used for dispensing volatile reagents and waste. The building is 7 years old. With more emphasis on student projects, I find that the hoods are almost always in use. -- Ann Klotz School of Science Siena College 515 Loudon Road Loudonville, NY 12211-1462 Office Phone: 518-783-2402 Cell Phone 518-860-8489 Siena College is a learning community advancing the ideals of a liberal arts education, rooted in its identity as a Franciscan and Catholic institution.
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