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Subject: Re: 2 RE: [DCHAS-L] Methaneseleninic acid gloves?
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:01:56 -0700
Author: "Alnajjar, Mikhail S"


Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:29:05 -0400
Reply-To: ILPI <info**At_Symbol_Here**ILPI.COM>
Sender: DCHAS-L Discussion List <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU>
From: ILPI <info**At_Symbol_Here**ILPI.COM>
Subject: Re: 2 RE: [DCHAS-L] Methaneseleninic acid gloves?
Comments: cc: Beth Shepard
In-Reply-To: <OF875FC161.4D586671-ON862575E7.0047042E-862575E7.0048C45A**At_Symbol_Here**sial.com>

Just to expand a bit on Beth's second point concerning MSDS's, the HazCom Standard says:

(g)(2)(ix)
Any generally applicable control measures which are known to the chemical manufacturer, importer or employer preparing the material safety data sheet, such as appropriate engineering controls, work practices, or personal protective equipment;

See our hypertext version here:  http://www.ilpi.com/msds/osha/1910_1200.html#1910.1200(g)(2)(ix)

Likewise,  the National Paint & Coatings Association's HMIS=AE system, while it has a white section for recommended PPE, specifically recommends that "preparers of MSDSs should not place HMIS=AE PPE designation codes on the MSDSs or labels that leave the facility, as they do not know the conditions under which their customers use those products."   See  http://www.paint.org/h mis/hmis_faq2.cfm#Q5 as well as http://www.paint.org/h mis/hmis_faq2.cfm#Q7

PPE is the last line of defense after substitution, engineering controls, and administrative controls.   The possible exposure (and therefore PPE requirements) could vary tremendously at two different workplaces even if the chemical was used on the same scale at both.  That's why the HazCom standard requires employers to evaluate the chemicals used and to develop a written Hazard Communication plan.

But yes, it would be nice for manufacturers to offer specific glove recommendations - or at least warn of *inappropriate* glove selections (for example, latex gloves and dimethylmercury if you remember the Dartmouth incident) for chemicals sold for laboratory-scale operations.  29 CFR 1910.1200 and other OSHA standards are concerned with minimum required information, but they do not prohibit folks from adding additional information to an MSDS such as PPE recommendations, CAS numbers, transportation information etc.

Rob Toreki

On Jul 2, 2009, at 9:15 AM, Beth Shepard wrote:

Good morning--

First, for highly toxic materials, our Packaging Dept., which is measures out prepack units from a bulk container, typically uses neoprene outer gloves with a Silver Shield(R) glove as an inner liner. They also wear other PPE to prevent inhalation or contamination of skin or clothing. The PPE requirements are dependent on the hazards associated with a particular chemical (examples could be supplied breathing air, aprons, sleeves, boot covers, etc.).  

Second, the MSDS indicates "Handle with gloves", rather than a more specific recommendation, because the glove choice (& indeed all PPE) is so dependent on the user's specific task. According to OSHA's Hazard Communication Standard, MSDSs have to be written to cover situations ranging from small amounts to commercial quantities. The PPE requirements are dramatically different for the safe handling of a 5g bottle versus the safe handling of a 55 gallon drum (or larger).

Beth

Beth Shepard, Technical Compliance Specialist
Regulatory Compliance
Sigma-Aldrich
6000 N. Teutonia Ave.
Milwaukee, WI  53209

414-438-2608, ext. 5471      
 >We had a question about the correct gloves to wear when working with  
Methaneseleninic acid. The Sigma/Aldrich MSDS helpfully says "Handle  
with gloves", but given the stench and high toxicity of the material,  
the researcher (and we) would like something more specific. The  
process is weighing out and dissolving the powder in water.

From: "Margaret Rakas" <mrakas**At_Symbol_Here**smith.edu>
Date: June 30, 2009 10:47:25 AM EDT
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Methaneseleninic acid gloves?

My suggestion is to call Sigma Aldrich and ask them what their folks  
wear when they handle this stuff.  After all, they either make it or  
repackage it (or can ask their vendor what they use).  Be pushy if you  
need to be; I have had some very inexperienced "safety specialists"  
who basically read the MSDS and some very good ones.  The other  
alternative is to call one of the glove manufacturers, who have always  
been able to help me with these questions if the original vendor  
can't.  But SA is a big company and should be providing this  
information as a matter of 'product stewardship'.  If more people  
'bothered' them for this information they would rightly start adding  
it to the MSDS, where it belongs. Good luck.

The above is my personal opinion only, not legal advice and may not  
reflect the opinion of my employer or any group to which I belong.
Margaret Rakas

===
From: "Debbie M. Decker" <dmdecker**At_Symbol_Here**ucdavis.edu>
Date: June 30, 2009 11:46:46 AM EDT
Subject: RE: [DCHAS-L] Methaneseleninic acid gloves?

When I don't know what gloves to recommend (and the manufacturer is no  
help), my fall back is Silver Shield with close-fitting nitrile over  
top.

Good luck!

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