Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 15:45:24 -0800
Reply-To: neal**At_Symbol_Here**
Sender: DCHAS-L Discussion List <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU>
Subject: Re: UCLA Pyrophorics Video
In-Reply-To: <F1C8440381C2A945824AD871CE314CB304105EBA**At_Symbol_Here**PHXEXCMB-PN01.ecorp.egn>


As I said previously, we will be showing the UCSD-produced video on this
topic at the SF ACS meeting in March.  In addition, another speaker 
plans to
show the UCLA-produced video and provide a commentary on the practices
That should prove to be a very provocative and interesting session - I
expect that paper alone will be reason to attend the entire meeting.

Hope to see you all there ... and sign up for a division workshop - at

We are offering all five workshops:
Lab Safety
Lab Waste
How to be a more effective CHO
Handling reactives in labs and pilot plants
OSHA HAZWOPER Annual Refresher


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-----Original Message-----
From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**] On Behalf Of
Latimer, Lee
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:36 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] UCLA Pyrophorics Video

Having spent decades working with organolithium and related reagents, I
found the video quite good for the discussion of the transfer of
solutions of pyrophorics, with a couple of comments.  Hopefully someone
is considering as similar training video for the transfer of pyrophorics
metals and phosphorus.

My comments on this video cover a few items not already mentioned well
in this forum.  I particularly do not like the use of needles as the
supply of inert gas in the receiving flask as they are rarely new and
get plugged by the septa.  Better is to use a classic gas inlet tube
which can provide for larger flows of gas in or out, in this case
through the top of the condenser.

When engaged in the syringe transfer, the gas blanket is a good
recommendation.  So too is the use of an inline Luer-locked valve
available from supply houses in metal or plastic which will prevent
accidental dispensing/leaking of the liquid by unintended pressure on
the syringe.

I also noted that at the end of use the bottle was not sealed with a
Parafilm wrap over the septum or after the cap was replaced.

I agree with those with concern about the gloves.  I recommend ones that
are slightly thicker than the exam glove style and which extend farther
up the arm ("flight style") closing the open space to the lab coat.  We
have tried to find fire resistant lab coats with a wrist closing style
without success.  The same is true for lab coats that close higher.

I note that while the face shield was shown in one brief scene, Dustin
did not use it.  Further, the style of glasses he is wearing leave wide
gaps due to a mismatch to his face.  Many individuals, indeed races,
have face shapes which call for a survey of styles to find ones that
provide both close fit and comfort.  Fortunately, the range of styles
available both for single or over-prescription glasses are substantial.

Many thanks to the UCLA faculty for their efforts to get this made and

Lee Latimer

-----Original Message-----
From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**] On Behalf Of
Dr. Jay A. Young
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 1:45 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] UCLA Pyrophorics Video


You are 1000% correct in your description of MSDSs--they are not
As you have said, there is no requirement that they tell the truth, the 
whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

However, some suppliers in fact do have reliable MSDSs.  DuPont comes to

mind as an outstanding example.  Ashland Chemical is another.

Jay Young

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David C. Finster" 
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] UCLA Pyrophorics Video

> Excellent video, in many regards... BUT
> I strongly oppose the notion that the safety glasses that Dustin is 
> wearing constitute adequate eye protection in this or any other lab 
> circumstance where there is a splash hazard.   This egregious error
> the like most common mistake that is seen in photographs of chemists
> labs, even in C&ENEws.  Arrgh.  (To the video's credit, Dustin puts on
> face shield when working with the pyrophoric.  I'm still troubled by
> implication, at least, that safety glasses are adequate eye
> Not in my labs.)
> And, I advise against using MSDSs as the primary source of any
> related to safe use of chemicals.  These documents are not required to
> correct, and some studies have shown that they are, in fact,
> incorrect.  Even when factually correct, they are not always useful.
> example, the statement, "Dispose of chemical properly according to
> and federal regulations" is correct, but not helpful.  Further, since
> are sometimes (often?) written by computer programs rather than
humans, we 
> find not-very-helpful suggestions such as "immediately flush with
> water for 15 minutes and seek assistance from MD" when buffered saline

> gets in your eyes, or storing distilled water in a "tightly closed 
> container."  I have become wary of using them, ever.
> Dave
> David C. Finster
> Professor of Chemistry
> University Chemical Hygiene Officer
> Department of Chemistry
> Wittenberg University
> dfinster**At_Symbol_Here**
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU] On Behalf
> Erik A. Talley
> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 11:41 AM
> To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU
> Subject: [DCHAS-L] UCLA Pyrophorics Video
> The UCLA EHS Department has created a pyrophorics safety video that is
> available on YouTube:
> Regards,
> Erik
> ___________________________________
> Erik A. Talley, Director
> Environmental Health and Safety
> Weill Cornell Medical College
> Cornell University
> 402 East 67th Street, Room LA-0020
> New York, NY 10065
> 646-962-7233
> ert2002**At_Symbol_Here**

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