Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 08:49:59 -0700
Reply-To: DCHAS-L Discussion List <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU>
Sender: DCHAS-L Discussion List <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU>
From: Alan Hall <ahalltoxic**At_Symbol_Here**MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Unknown Hazardous Chemical
In-Reply-To: <1782013206.7405311262742291877.JavaMail.root**At_Symbol_Here**>

Is there some REASON why this unknown chemical must be analytically identif ied (such as regulatory issues or disposal issues, or because a worker or workers have been exposed, or because there have been some contamination or decontamination issues)?  If not, why not simply incinerate it at a proper hazardous waste facility and remove the problem?
Just a thought.
Alan H. Hall, M.D.
Toxicology Consulting and Medical Translating Services, Inc. (TCMT S, Inc.)
Laramie, WY
Colorado School of Public Health
Denver, CO

Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 01:44:51 +0000
From: interm2**At_Symbol_Here**COMCAST.NET
Subj ect: Re: [DCHAS-L] Unknown Hazardous Chemical
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU
Andr ew,

I worked in a pesticide laboratory for 5+ years and we run chl ordane in a GC with and ECD detector. The chlordane has a particular spectr a.

If you can send the sample to a pesticide lab or run it in a GC w ith a capillar column as RTX-5  and ECD detector, and run a standa rd also you should be able to  discard or accept this option.
I hope this help...

Sara Skigin de Man

----- Or iginal Message -----
From: "ILPI" <info**At_Symbol_Here**ILPI.COM>
To: DCHAS -L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2010 2:10:24 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Unknown Hazardous Chemical

For chlorinated materials, the isotope pattern is key.  Is it possible for you to post the spectra somewhere so we can see it?  I f you don't have any way of doing that yourself, you can email them to me and I'll post them in a temporary directory where others on the list can l ook at them.

Rob Toreki

On Jan 5, 2010, at 1:51 PM, Andrew Gross wrote:

First off I would like to thank everyone for their time and thoughtsto our mystery, which as of now remains a mysery.

We ran GC and it is not in our library.  I'm hoping someone might be
able to he lp with some new information.

ion 91 is the strongest peak
ion 61 is apx 75% of ion 91
ion 45 is apx 50% of ion 61.

the peaks were very light so we are extending run time to see if we
can generate more peaks.

we ran ph on all samples.  5 of the 7 are ph 12, 2 o f the samples are
ph 7.  The two that are ph 7 are obviously the most concentrated based
on the odor that rushes at you when you open the jar.

Thanks for your continued help,

Andrew Gross

O n Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Clark, Richard C <rcclark**At_Symbol_Here**> wrote:
Just got back to work this morning after a week's vacation and read the
postings related to this problem.

The chlordane speculation merits comment.  I was the wor ks chemist for
Velsicol at Marshall, IL just before the plant closed in the late 70's.
That was the only site in the world that manufactured chlordane ; Velsicol
also manufactured hexachlor at another site (Tennessee, I thi nk).  Chlordane
is a polychlorinated dicyclopentadiene and had lots of by-produ cts;
hexachlor was hexachlorocyclopentadiene made by a different pro cess and was
much purer.  Chlordane was so heavy that it could only be shipped in 30-gal.
drums.  It was diluted by reformulators with kerosene (5 -10% chlordane, I
think).  The kerosene-chlordane mixture could be dispers ed in water with the
aid of detergent to make an emulsion for field spraying and ter mite
treatment.  With the closure of the Marshall, IL plant , acquisition of
Velsicol by Great Lakes Chemical (now part of Chemtura), and& nbsp;environmental
issues, chlordane manufacture was never re-started.  T his might explain the
age of the drums.

Chlordane is an impure mixture containing numerous chlor ination byproducts
of cyclopentadiene and dicyclopentadiene.  The EPA publi shed a GC-MS study
of it ca. 1976 in Analytical Chemistry which revealed dozens of compounds..
Velsicol had no idea of that complexity; we were using packed column GC
technology for process control.  I'm not sure that  ;GC-MS will be useful for
identification given the mixture of kerosene and chlordane. Tha t would be an
identification nightmare.

Chlordane yellows with age.  The green flame is from the Bielstein test for
chlorine.  The emulsion of the kerosene mixture is cloud y-white.  While the
initial boiling point may be 27=B0C, the boiling point may ri se quickly above
100=B0C.  An ASTM distillation will give some idea of th at.  Infrared
spectroscopy of the distillation fractions (10% volume cuts)&nb sp;should show a
mixture of saturated hydrocarbons and chlorination of saturated and
unsaturated hydrocarbons.  I'll be surprised if you can take the
distillation to a dry point before the flask contents start to smoke;
chlordane will likely break down before it distills.  If the low boiling
components are chlorinated by-products, they won't flash.

Hope this helps (and my memory isn't too inaccurate).

Rick Clark
Sr. Research Chemist
Curwood, Inc.

From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**] On Behalf Of
List Moderator
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 11:38 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.ED U
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Unknown Hazardous Chemical

From: Andrew Gross <gross.drew**At_Symbol_Here**>
Date: December 28, 2009 12:02:48 PM EST
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Unknown Hazardous Chemical

Hi Everyone,
My lab recieved a sample from a power plant that they do not kn ow what
it is and wish to have it identified.  I am trying to ID it because
until I have a better idea it is on hold for all testing (read on to
find out why).  I'm hoping for some thoughts.
Sample is liquid in appearance, but lighter then di-chloromet hane.  I
think it is actually an oil of some kind.  It is transpa rant yellow
and some say it smells like kerosene.
It forms a white emulsion when mixed with water.
There is no flash point.  On closed cup method it flames out below
25C.  It does not ignite when exposed to direct flame.&n bsp; However it
boils around 27C.
Exposed flame turns green (like copper flame), vapors also tu rn flame green.
When dried, it turns to a waxy white translucent crystal.&nbs p; My closed
cup flame is still green meaning it is contaminated by the vapo rs.
Vapors in small quanteties (under hood) cause nausea, light h eadedness
and confusion.
pH is 6ish (litmus paper) although client claims it to be caust ic.
All PCB analysis came up negative.
The exposure effects are why all tests are on hold till we have a
better idea as to what were dealing with as well as the remaini ng
tests for my department involve reacting with acid and pumping< BR>
nitrogen through it.
Thoughts, ideas, experiences?  Client has 5 unidenti fied drums of this
stuff and has no idea what it is.  We need to identify b ut I am not
going to put anyone in danger until I know more about it.
Andrew Gross

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