From: Karen Salazar <kls_1**At_Symbol_Here**COX.NET>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Need a consulting organic chemist on safety issue
Date: November 30, 2012 3:07:44 PM EST
Reply-To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU>
Message-ID: <web-434791284**At_Symbol_Here**>


I have worked with brominated disinfectants, and for the same reasons as in previous post, it will not work. Bromine has some benefits over chlorine because the brominated by-products are less irritating than the chlorinated by-products, but the overall chemistry is the same. The bottom line is that without a circulation AND filtration system, you cannot mimic the disinfection that you see in a swimming pool. The buffer system breaks down, and the water will not reach and stay at the pH range where chlorine or bromine is most effective at killing bacteria. Also, there is a bather load for every pool. That is the most amount of people the chemicals can handle for the given pool. If you could somehow get disinfection to take place, this body of water is only 1500 gallons, therefore would it would have a very low bather load and you would still not be able to properly disinfect. Finally, this idea violates the health code. Monona, you are just going to have to break the!
ir hearts, and if they still don't listen, threaten to call in the health department.


On Nov 30, 2012, at 1:25 PM, Paul Harrison wrote:

Monona, once again, just as we thought we had seen it all, you bring us news of someone who has managed to create a new low in health and safety in the workplace. And I thought that was the exclusive purview of us academics... wrong again!

While this all sounds like a nightmare, here is a suggestion just in case your clients decide to go ahead with their experiment in measuring human infection rates.

How about bromine? Like most, I use chlorine in our pool, but pool shops also carry "bromine" i.e tablets that release bromine; it is used when people are allergic or react to chlorine, and is apparently effective as a sterilizer. I would reason that bromine is a less powerful oxidant than chlorine, and so the red dyes might be more stable and oxidized less, or less fast. No idea if this will work, just a suggestion.


On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 20:10:00 -0500
ACTSNYC**At_Symbol_Here**CS.COM wrote:
Once again I'm hoping you all can find someone who can help with a problem
that would cross a Rabbi's eyes.

A famous theater in NYC is planning a production in which people will wade
through a 1500 gallon pool of "blood" a few times a week for about 6 weeks.
They've been doing some tests on a mixture of commercial stage blood
diluted 1:10 with water. Since stage blood is made with a lot of dyes, corn
syrup, propylene glycol and methyl parabens, and since diluting it will cause the
parabens to fail, and since they will be using this over many weeks at 90 o
F and regularly introduce the living organisms from a bunch of feet, they
thought they could used pool chemicals (mostly sodium dichloroisocyanurate)
to keep it from functioning like a giant petrii dish.

However, in their "tests" the amount of chlorine just doesn't get up to a
safe level. I'm not surprised since dyes are high nitrogen compounds, there
are organic chemicals presents, etc.

I'm also concerned that the dyes are fading with the chlorine application
and breaking down. That means there may be small amounts of some really
toxic stuff in there.

This is beyond me. I can help with the dyes, but they need someone who can
figure out more about the chemicals likely to be created in this soup and
if we need to look in a completely different direction for a solution to this

I'm taking names and suggestions from one and all.

Monona Rossol, M.S., M.F.A.,
industrial hygienist
Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety, Inc.
Safety Officer,
United Scenic Artist's, Local USA829
International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employes (IATSE)
181 Thompson St., #23
New York NY 10012-2586 212/777-0062

Paul Harrison
Associate Professor of Chemistry
Department of Chemistry and Chemical Biology
McMaster University
1280 Main St. W., Hamilton, ON, L8S 4M1, Canada
Phone: (905)525-9140 ext. 27290; FAX: (905)522-2509

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