From: "Clark, Richard C" <rcclark**At_Symbol_Here**BEMIS.COM>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Campus Carry Laws and Research Laboratories
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 19:47:14 +0000
Reply-To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU>
Message-ID: 70CA0AB0E07E2F4EBB3DEEC5224C704029C3F317**At_Symbol_Here**

Douglas Adams did.  It was called -The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe, a trilogy in five partsÉ.


Richard Clark

Senior Chemist

Bemis, Inc.


From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**]On Behalf Of Alan Hall
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Campus Carry Laws and Research Laboratories


Et al,


I'll add a second AMEN to Frankie's comments.


I remember a quite old science fiction story (???Arthur C. Clarke, Theodore Sturgeon???, perhaps another great writer???); I have forgotten the datails.  It was about a sane society that only needed 2 laws: 1) Do not offend Oother People; 2) If you're Other People, do not become offended too easily.  Would that our global society was sane.  You could postulate a great short story alleding that the earth is a loony bin for the rest of the Universe.



Alan H. Hall, M.D.

Medical Toxicologist



On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 10:07 AM, <porterjb**At_Symbol_Here**> wrote:



From:"Frankie Wood-Black" <fwblack**At_Symbol_Here**CABLEONE.NET>
Sent: Monday, December 7, 2015 10:44:39 AM
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Campus Carry Laws and  Research Laboratories


Some thoughts to share - 


1) There are several laboratories that actually study things like explosives, explosive residues, etc.

2) There are forensic laboratories that are looking for ways to identify rounds, gun round combinations, etc.

3) There are folks that are conducting research into "smart" triggers.

4) And, I don't know about you - but a knife, desk, sharp object (such as scalpels, razor blades, box cutters, glass, scissors), welding torches, stakes, etc. are also just as dangerous.


The issue is not the weapon nor is it the policy, law or regulation.  In fact; the policy, law and regulation may actually have numerous unintended consequences that we haven't even thought about yet.


Even those on this list that are supposed to understand - hazard, and risk plus look at the facts versus perception of risk - need to remember that it is NOT the object, device, chemical, etc.  It is the situation surrounding the use or misuse.  


The world is not a safe place, our own DNA, our choices, and Mother Nature through critters, weather, plants and the Earth itself - can all result in our earlier than intended demise.  The statistics say - you are more likely to die from a slip or fall than numerous other things that hit the paper.  Personally - I am more concerned when I drive somewhere due to inattentive driving, road rage, and the deer that just wants to leap in front of me than I am about what an upset person is likely to do.


May be it is because I lived through the 1970's where yes - I walked over the glass in the Rome airport after the Israeli ticket counter bombing.  Have passed more than one suspicious device in Turkey, in South America, and in Washington DC - the day Hillary Clinton gave a speech when Planned Parenthood was smoked bombed on the Roe vs. Wade Anniversary.  May be it is because I have seen riots.  May be it is because I saw the aftermath of Jim Jones (we were in Panama at the time - and that is where the set up the IC),  May be it is because I saw the 1972 Olympics on TV and the evacuation of the Shah to Panama.  May be it is because I lived in Edmond, OK when the term "going postal" was first presented.  And, yes I lived in Oklahoma with the Luby's Cafeteria was made famous.  And, yes I was in Waco one week after the biker incident.  And I had a student when I was a TA (in the early 80's) who was missing a leg due to a Hell's Angels gun battle in the late 70's.


This stuff isn't new - it is just more publicized.  Yes, we have to deal with it.  Our world is more open and we hear about this in real time.  We also now get days and hours of "instant analysis" even before we have the information. 


For those of us on this list - we are supposed to look at the root causes.  For some of these it is ignorance.  For some of these it is to be famous for a few minutes.  For some of these there is an underlying issue that we can't address (mental illness). For others they are fighting a war of ideology that has been going on for centuries.  If you want my opinion - let's look at how we deal with underlying issues.  It is not helping that somewhere along the line a "right to never be offended" seems to have been added to our lexicon.


Let's not jump to a "quick" solution - as we all know those are the ones that get us into the most trouble.


From:"Alvaldenio**At_Symbol_Here**" <alvaldenio**At_Symbol_Here**VERIZON.NET>
Sent: Sunday, December 6, 2015 12:11:51 PM
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Campus Carry Laws and  Research Laboratories


Monona,  We spent 34 years in Wisconsin (Eau Claire, Madison and Milwaukee) before guns on campus became accepted.  I am glad to be retired at this point!  Not all students were happy with their grades and some faculty were unhappy with tenure decisions.  Lucky to be alive in Delaware!  Al Denio





Sent from my iPad

On Dec 5, 2015, at 3:02 PM, Monona Rossol <actsnyc**At_Symbol_Here**CS.COM> wrote:


That is SO funny.  Thanks, Donald.  


Working in the Midwest as an entertainer and driving from one gig to another often in the wee hours, I always carried.  The first year in NYC I carried illegally because I really didn't know my way around and was still working clubs at night.  But to comply with the rules to carry legally in NYC is the biggest PITA ever. It's not worth it. Being assaulted or killed is preferable.



Monona Rossol, M.S., M.F.A., Industrial Hygienist

President:  Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety, Inc.

Safety Officer: Local USA829, IATSE

181 Thompson St., #23

New York, NY 10012    212-777-0062


-----Original Message-----
From: Don Abramowitz <dabramow**At_Symbol_Here**BRYNMAWR.EDU>
Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2015 12:31 pm
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Campus Carry Laws and Research Laboratories

I can't help but marvel over the modern world of EHS practice when I juxtapose the fire extinguisher discussion with the concealed carry one.  On the one hand, we're asked to address the particular added hazard of people of any level of training, competence, stability, etc. possibly sending bullets flying in a laboratory, where one of the givens is that it is already perfectly acceptable for them to tote the weapons of their choice in a crowded cafeteria.  Then we're asked to worry about whether an untrained person might get their hands on a fire extinguisher during an actual fire, technically violating a regulation (and yes, possibly exposing themselves to injury by staying around when they should have left).  It just seems odd to be in a world where firearms are a personal choice but access to fire extinguishers is something for safety professionals to carefully manage.


Hi All,

This is the first time I have posted a question to the general community;
we are interested in your opinions and perspectives.

As many of you know, the State of Texas passed a concealed carry law
during the last legislative session. While universities cannot declare an
entire public university a 3gun-free zone2, certain areas can be declared
gun free. Hospital and child care facilities, as well as public
auditoriums and Board of Regents rooms have often been exempted at other
state universities.

At Texas Tech, our Institutional Laboratory Safety Committee has been
exploring under what conditions certain laboratory or research areas
should be declared gun free. So as not to bias the discussion, I will not
tell you where we are heading. But it did raise to my mind the question
that with a number of states now adopting similar laws, should EH&S
professionals be brought into the discussion at a national level?

What do you all think about this? Should all synthesis labs be gun free?
Should only certain areas, like NMR facilities or areas with high magnetic
fields, or areas with cryogenic tanks, be gun free? What about flammables?
Labs with pyrophoric materials?

I am copying Matt Roe, our head of EH&S, to this discussion thread, so
that a couple of us can follow the comments.


Dom Casadonte
Texas Tech University


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