From: "Nakamoto, Ginger J CIV NAVFAC HI, PRP411" <ginger.nakamoto**At_Symbol_Here**NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] [Non-DoD Source] Re: [DCHAS-L] Glove video feedback
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 16:58:48 +0000
Reply-To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU>
Message-ID: E91063F45AC09E48818ACC7FD690E44B1896D68A**At_Symbol_Here**
In-Reply-To <15213fd7a7b-5358-1ec60**At_Symbol_Here**>

I agree with Monona. When I ran a large Hazardous waste accumulation site, personnel wanted to use Ndex type gloves on a regular basis. I made sure to get the permeation and degradation data for the gloves from the manufacturers (I had the charts from both BEST and NORTH) before I would purchase gloves from them. They were specific to the thickness and type of materials. I made sure that they understood that a single material could not be used for every case and how to use the charts. If they had questions, they came to me. They were also first responders, so they received annual HAZWOPER refreshers that helped reinforce their understanding of this message.

I am sure that by now there should be more and better data out there.

Ginger Nakamoto
Naval Facilities Engineering Command Hawaii
400 Marshall Road
JBPHH HI 96860-3139
808-471-5733 wk

-----Original Message-----
From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**] On Behalf Of Monona Rossol
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 12:52 PM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [DCHAS-L] Glove video feedback

Ralph, if this is what you took away from my comments, we need to talk.

- further information on factors impacting glove protection, particularly invisible degradation could have been included (we talked through this before the video and highlighted the pieces of the topic that could fit into the time we allotted)

It is not invisible degradation, it is permeation I am concerned about. Every student should know that good primary glove manufacturers provide two types of data, degradation and permeation. There are ASTM tests for these two phenomena. While degradation can usually seen, there usually are no changes in the glove material made by solvents that permeate.

The permeation chart will tell you how many minutes before each type of solvent can permeate the glove and reach the inside. The information is manufacturer specific because it is dependent on many factors, type of polymer or mix, whether it was made from latex or a solvent solution of the polymer, exact thickness and more. And this information is already compiled and should available in every lab.

It isn't only methyl mercury that permeates (e.g., Dartmouth death). Many solvents do this. And like the Dartmouth accident, labs seem to use medical examining gloves. Most of these are specifically NOT for use with chemicals. Read the box. So you need to use gloves from those manufacturers that do test these gloves. I haven't check lately, but North did tests on their examining gloves back a while ago.

On the plus side, you have very light exposure rather than prolonged contact. But you should know which chemicals will go through the glove without showing evidence of doing so.

That video is giving students the impression this is a simple test they can do in their labs. It is not.

Monona Rossol, M.S., M.F.A., Industrial Hygienist
President: Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety, Inc.
Safety Officer: Local USA829, IATSE
181 Thompson St., #23
New York, NY 10012 212-777-0062
actsnyc**At_Symbol_Here** <>

-----Original Message-----
From: Stuart, Ralph
Sent: Tue, Jan 5, 2016 2:34 pm
Subject: [DCHAS-L] Glove video feedback

I wanted to summarize the responses I received to my request for comments on the lab glove video I posted at

I received 17 responses, which is a pretty good response rate, since 169 people have viewed the video since it was posted yesterday. 12 of the responses were primarily positive, with several people noting that safety messages from fellow students are often easier for other students to engage with than those from more official sources.

Common concerns people had with the video were:
- not wearing eye protection during part of the video (we did discuss this issue and in context, my assessment was that it was necessary not to wear the goggles when the chemicals were not being used since there was no splash hazard and the chemicals were stored in the hood)
- the height of the fume hood sash while they were working at the hood was too high (this was a production issue during filming that was moderated by wearing goggles)
- there was handling of the pipettes in a way that didn't control contamination (I didn't notice this until chemists pointed it out)
- wearing nitrile gloves while demonstrating the impact of those gloves by the chemicals being used (an interesting chicken and egg question)
- further information on factors impacting glove protection, particularly invisible degradation could have been included (we talked through this before the video and highlighted the pieces of the topic that could fit into the time we allotted)
- mispronunciation of methylene chloride could impact the video's credibility (I've had the same problem, not only with chemists, but with a variety of audiences - there's a culture gap created by even small stylistic elements such as this)
- miscellaneous production issues (music volume, typos and speed of text slides)

A couple of respondents also pointed out two videos which could serve as good companions on this topic:

Choosing the Right Gloves from the ChemistryShack

Chemical Permeation, Breakthrough and Degradation of Laboratory Gloves from Northwestern University

I don't think that any of these concerns mean that the Keene State video is unusable; the last item is fixable. The others I will address during discussions with the class. This points out one of the challenges of any safety video or other forms of distance education - in my experience, discussions of the safety issues in such demonstrations are at least as important as the content included for learning to be effective.

Thanks to everyone who responded. I'd be interested in further discussion as people feel so moved.

- Ralph

Ralph Stuart, CIH, CCHO
Chemical Hygiene Officer
Keene State College


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