From: Jeffrey Lewin <jclewin**At_Symbol_Here**MTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] 3 more thoughts on safety shower drainage
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 08:53:17 -0400
Reply-To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Message-ID: CAEwQnqgb8KEbV-Bo6zTyO8mSUrm8oAdPbXUem3m8UYG=fxD21g**At_Symbol_Here**

I just pulled the raw data out of my recycling bin that I used to create the following slide for a recent presentation:

'The Chemical Safety Board has collected chemical incidents that "occurred in public and private research laboratories, universities, high schools, middle schools elementary schools, the National Laboratories, state-run laboratories and educational demonstrations."'

From 1998-2018 (20 years) they recorded:
260 incidents, that caused
10 fatalities and
489 injuries

While it doesn't list what specifically happened, it is hard to believe that safety showers and/or eyewashes were not utilized for some of them.

On our campus, I recall at least one reported incident of using a safety shower in the last year; nitric acid spilled in a hood that dripped under the sash onto the researcher's legs. Fortunately, there was a drain under the shower. The bigger issue with that incident was delaying calling 911 for professional first aid treatment and medical evaluation.

In the presentation where I use the CSB data, I relate a personal story from my undergraduate years. A fellow undergrad was pipetting 10N NaOH into scintillation vials (no radionucleotides, just the appropriate sized vessel). He got some on his fingers, which made the vial slippery. He dropped the vial and it splashed into his unprotected eye. Fortunately, the eyewash was only steps away. One of the learning lessons, aside from the lack of eye protection, was that an eyewash can make a big puddle of water. And remember that an eyewash is only pushing out at around 0.4 GPM vs an eyewash at 20 GPM.

Maybe not frequent, but common enough to recognize that it can happen.


On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 6:42 PM Alan Hall <oldeddoc**At_Symbol_Here**> wrote:
Et al,

As with anything relating to safety, it doesn't matter how often you need to use it, it's that it's there and in working condition when an unusual occurence makes it necessary that you use it. I've got umpteen pictures of folks didn't have rapid acess to decon, and even in my old inured state, they make me sick to look at them . Totally unnecessary.

You can run a red stoplight a thousand times on a deserted street, and the one time when you should have stopped, you get T-boned by a big truck. Safety may just be anticipating what can happen, and then seeing to the best of our abilities, that it doesn't. How often do you need to use a fire extinguisher? Then what happens if you do have a fire and you don't have the proper one or it's been so poorly maintained that it doesn't work? Food for thought. If you ever had to care for patients with 50-90% total bosy surface area chemical burns (which I have), you never forget that and want to never see it again.

Alan H. Hall, M.D.

On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 2:26 PM DCHAS Membership Chair <membership**At_Symbol_Here**> wrote:
From: "Kolodziej, Christopher" <ckolodziej**At_Symbol_Here**>
Subject: RE: [DCHAS-L] Thoughts on some arguments against drains under safetyshowers
Date: October 4, 2018 at 11:02:12 AM EDT

I think a better argument against floor drains is the potential for kilograms of pure material from a large spill to find their way down the drain, rather than the grams of material washed off of someone's body by the ~300 gal dispensed when a shower is activated.



Christopher M. Kolodziej, Ph.D.

Associate Chemical Hygiene Officer
UCLA Office of Environment, Health & Safety
501 Westwood Plaza, 4th Flr
Los Angeles, CA 90095

Phone: (310) 261-8611
email: ckolodziej**At_Symbol_Here**

From: Frankie Wood-Black <fwoodblack90**At_Symbol_Here**>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] 11 more messages RE: [DCHAS-L] Thoughts on some arguments against drains under safety showers
Date: October 4, 2018 at 11:58:05 AM EDT
To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**>

I see a lot of valid points - however, the safety shower should not be a source of another hazard. There are many laboratories that have lots of electronic equipment, hence flooding of a room where there is no drain can result in an electrical hazard. We ran into this in rooms with large magnets (EPR or NMR laboratories), rooms with microscopes, rooms with lots of instrumentation, etc. In one case, we relocated the shower from next to the door in the laboratory to just outside the door, in front (note for that lab, there was only a doorway and not a physical door) and there was a normal drain located under a water fountain less than 2 feet away. So, there was no issue about sewer gas as the drain was frequently used..

Please watch for "false" floors and safety showers - have seen this before in remodels and that could be an extreme issue as well.

Frankie Wood-Black, Ph.D., REM, MBA
Principal - Sophic Pursuits
NOTE - ADDRESS CHANGE - Mailing Address - PO Box 433, Tonkawa, OK 74653
email address fwoodblack90**At_Symbol_Here**
or fwblack**At_Symbol_Here**



From: "Wilhelm, Monique" <mwilhelm**At_Symbol_Here**>
Subject: RE: [DCHAS-L] Thoughts on some arguments against drains under safety showers
Date: October 4, 2018 at 12:50:36 PM EDT

Just curious-How often are people using safety showers?

My old drains were also a tripping hazard and actually made it difficult to test the units. So, I got rid of them in the remodel and added flash sealed flooring with a "cove"? that goes up about 6 inches to the labs that used to have them. I know of a school that had drains added in their last remodel that they were forced to fill by an inspecting body of some sort.

I have had to use the shower ONCE and the last thing I cared about was water on the floor. Quick clean up after emergency response led to no damage to that room or any others. I am very happy with this choice.

Monique Wilhelm
Laboratory Manager
Department of Chemistry & Biochemistry
University of Michigan - Flint

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Jeff Lewin
Chemical Safety Officer
Compliance, Integrity, and Safety
Environmental Health and Safety
Michigan Technological University
Houghton, MI 49931

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