From: ILPI Support <info**At_Symbol_Here**ILPI.COM>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] [EXT] Re: [DCHAS-L] Letter to the National PTA regarding the rainbow flame demo
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 19:02:14 -0400
Reply-To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Message-ID: 83B4F6FA-BEC2-4461-8B4D-53DF22DBE5AE**At_Symbol_Here**
In-Reply-To <21724edf-5958-b8ac-8253-4d31716c6ed1**At_Symbol_Here**>

Idle musing 1: Perhaps one could lobby for a regulation at the state level that laboratory/science teachers take an actual training course in hazard/risk assessment as part of their certification requirements-.

Idle musing 2: Perhaps in concert with LSI, an ad hoc group here or the ACS Chemical Safety Committee could come up with a draft of what that would look like, much as the GHS is a model system for HazCom.

Rob Toreki

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On Oct 2, 2019, at 5:34 PM, Samuella Sigmann <sigmannsb**At_Symbol_Here**APPSTATE.EDU> wrote:

I have guest lectured in our secondary science educator methods class for the last 5 years and so can make sure that our pre-service teachers at least get 2 hours of education on risk assessment - Not near enough, but something. I went about 2 weeks ago to do this for the fall semester.  You better believe that they got pointed to NFPA 45, Chapter 12.  Also, that "10 ft" distance goes right back to NFPA, Chapter 12.  That distance has been used in several cases and I think whether adopted or not is now "best practices".  They hear this as well.  

So at least a handful of teachers have this info!

I have reached out several times to the American Association of Colleges for Teacher Education (AACTE) to get the safety curriculum changed for K-12 teachers - particularly those who will be teaching middle and high school. The last time I emailed the Chair of AACTE was in June after the Beacon case.  So far my attempts have been recognized with, "how tragic that it is that students are getting burned", and "we will look into this".  

I believe more pressure needs to be put on this group.

On 10/2/2019 10:56 AM, Harry Elston wrote:

I would think it's a safe bet that not one secondary school educator (including education management) has ever read NFPA 45 (the current edition, the one with the demonstration requirements); understand "Authority having jurisdiction" and probably few have ever heard of the National Fire Protection Association.  


Then there's the secondary issue in local areas where NFPA standards are not regulatorily enforced.  NFPA standards are just that - standards; not regulation. They can (and have been) adopted by various jurisdictions as regulations, but there are areas where they have not been also.


The root cause of the problem cannot be solved by the Society but the Society, and particularly AACT, can assist in solving it.  The root cause of the problem is that, in general, secondary educators are not chemists (or "chemistry majors"); they are education majors with some science background.  Chemical safety is learned in the teaching laboratory and when one does not have extensive laboratory experience, they do not gather the knowledge and skills necessary to perform safely.  


"People change when the pain of change is less than the pain of staying the same."  It's been painful enough for individuals to act and begin to affect change; however, it is not been painful enough for the Society or AACT get involved at an "in the dirt" level.  As organizations go, we're great about talking about a problem; less so about working to solve it.




From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU> On Behalf Of Richard Palluzi
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] [EXT] Re: [DCHAS-L] Letter to the National PTA regarding the rainbow flame demo


Nfpa 45 has an extensive set if recommendations for demonstrations.


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We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do everything with nothing. Teresa Arnold paraphrased from Konstantin Josef Jire=C4=8Dek (1854 - 1918)


Samuella B. Sigmann, MS, NRCC-CHO
Senior Lecturer/Safety Committee Chair/Director of Stockroom
Appalachian State University
525 Rivers Street
Boone, NC 28608
Phone: 828 262 2755
Fax: 828 262 6558
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