From: Yaritza Brinker <YBrinker**At_Symbol_Here**FELE.COM>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Transporting Hazardous Chemicals on an Elevator - Surprising Statement California Fire Code
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 23:16:37 +0000
Reply-To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Message-ID: DM6PR05MB70525D8E483B281F931D51D9AD320**At_Symbol_Here**DM6PR05MB7052.namprd05.prod.outlook.com
In-Reply-To <007a01d5cd34$ee5307b0$caf91710$**At_Symbol_Here**comcast.net>


Agreed. The author(s) of that white paper did forget to state that you should inspect the cylinder before entering the elevator. However, their elevator recommendation does include the following:

"If it is absolutely necessary to have an attendant in the elevator with the container, an escape pack supplemental breathing apparatus must be carried in the elevator."

I think this would apply to any container of gas products being carried in an elevator, cylinders and dewars alike. Provided the gas being transported is a more benign one (i.e. N2) which does not pose other risks beyond axphyxiation.

Thank you,

Yaritza Brinker
260.827.5402

-----Original Message-----
From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety On Behalf Of Eugene Ngai
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2020 7:52 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Transporting Hazardous Chemicals on an Elevator - Surprising Statement California Fire Code

** External Email **

Dewars are very different than cylinders in that they need to vent to maintain the cold temperatures. This can be continuous creating a asphysiating environmentt. I don't see this as an issue with toxic or highly toxic cylinders that are leak tested prior to transport.

Eugene Ngai
Chemically Speaking LLC
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.chemicallyspeakingllc.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C04ac895f586a42de948208d79b4ce191%7C994c3e8bb42845fb8640593ef0303f7f%7C0%7C1%7C637148626819993018&sdata=ffe1GjIiYfI5WNsCARF4hmSKn0G1CHwgl2LcsxO%2BjVg%3D&reserved=0

-----Original Message-----
From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety On Behalf Of Yaritza Brinker
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 1:06 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Transporting Hazardous Chemicals on an Elevator - Surprising Statement California Fire Code

Preferably a service elevator, but could be any elevator. Do need an operator key to keep others from riding along.

The link below has a short concise section of cylinder transport in elevators. However, I can??t find any binding document that is specific to elevator transport. Might be a CGA doc.

https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https:%2F%2Fwww.airproducts.com%2F~%2Fmedia%2FFiles%2FPDF%2Fcompany%2Fsafetygram-27.pdf&data=02%7C01%7C%7C04ac895f586a42de948208d79b4ce191%7C994c3e8bb42845fb8640593ef0303f7f%7C0%7C1%7C637148626819993018&sdata=tfBnyfmKiMe3cw9aRu8FlGlk3LXzw%2FTdqauav4GDvFM%3D&reserved=0

Thank you,

Yaritza Brinker
260.827.5402

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety On Behalf Of Eugene Ngai
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 7:44 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Transporting Hazardous Chemicals on an Elevator - Surprising Statement California Fire Code


** External Email **
I??m new to this issue. To me there are many laboratories above or below the 1st floor. How are the cylinders moved to them? Freight elevator? I assume that this regulation is for regular passenger elevators. A 1 lb water capacity is a lecture bottle which is 440 cc (440 gms water capacity). For any good MOCVD research a cylinder containing at least 10 times that amount of arsine or phosphine is required for purity reasons. Otherwise it is a waste of time.
I was shocked to audit a University lab in the US that had graduate students physically slide/bump 200 lb cylinders of a highly toxic reactive gas up 2 flights of stairs since there was not an elevator. There was no option.
I assume that the transport of these cylinders are done after leak checking using a electronic leak detector. A leak to spontaneously occur during the brief time it is in the elevator is impossible without some severe physical event.. I did drop testing of 49 liter cylinder valves without a cylinder cap from a height of 7 ft and never succeeded in loosening or breaking the valve.

Eugene Ngai
Chemically Speaking LLC
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.chemicallyspeakingllc.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C04ac895f586a42de948208d79b4ce191%7C994c3e8bb42845fb8640593ef0303f7f%7C0%7C1%7C637148626819993018&sdata=ffe1GjIiYfI5WNsCARF4hmSKn0G1CHwgl2LcsxO%2BjVg%3D&reserved=0<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chemicallyspeakingllc.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C04ac895f586a42de948208d79b4ce191%7C994c3e8bb42845fb8640593ef0303f7f%7C0%7C1%7C637148626819993018&sdata=nQ63Tt4TXgqPt7shqP62yIWMXpDOhIycttryAGxuiy0%3D&reserved=0>

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety > On Behalf Of Edith Kippenhan
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 9:30 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Transporting Hazardous Chemicals on an Elevator - Surprising Statement California Fire Code

Our academic institution had a similar ruling when transporting gas cylinders and dewars, especially LN2.

Most of our hazardous chemicals were transported in hand carry totes, with a maximum size of 1 L bottle, Max 6 bottles. I don??t think there was a passenger limitation for those transports.

On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 4:06 PM Stella Julia Sommer <0000071592c679d2-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**lists.princeton.edu> wrote:

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:
From: Stella Julia Sommer >
Date: January 15, 2020 at 10:30:45 AM PST
To: LISTSERV**At_Symbol_Here**listserv.med.cornell.edu
Subject: Transporting Hazardous Chemicals on an Elevator - Surprising Statement California Fire Code Dear all, I had an interesting conversation about transporting hazardous chemicals this morning. My co-worker mentioned that the CA Fire Code would allow the transport of a certain quantity of hazardous chemicals when someone is riding the elevator at the same time. I was skeptical, so I looked it up.

"5003.10.4 Elevators utilized to transport hazardous materials.
5003.10.4.1. When transporting hazardous materials, elevators shall have no other passengers other than the
individual(s) handling the chemical transport cart.
5003.10.4.2. Hazardous materials liquid containers shall have a maximum capacity of 20 liters (5.28 gal).
5003.10.4.3. Toxic and highly-toxic gases shall be limited to a container of a maximum water capacity of 1 pound."

This is a very concerning.
I would appreciate your comments!

Thank you!

Stella Sommer

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