Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 11:27:16 +0000
Reply-To: DCHAS-L Discussion List <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU>
Sender: DCHAS-L Discussion List <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU>
From: Christopher Suznovich <snuz**At_Symbol_Here**ME.COM>
Subject: Re: Chemical Safety headlines from Google
In-Reply-To: <D42B60AA-69C7-4894-B78B-1B9D6537990E**At_Symbol_Here**>
What they are saying is true.  From a test animal stand point, t he rat is the closest relative to humans, even closer than mice, so if the product is highly toxic to rats, there is very high probability that the material is toxic to humans.  Based on the data shown, the only reaso n why the rat dies first and there are no human fatalities reported is due to the drastic difference in body mass.  A rat weighs only about 0.5 -1 kg where a human weighs on average 50-65kg.  So if it takes x mg/k g for the rat to die, it would take 25x mg/kg for the human to be poisoned to death. Considering that swine are very closely related to use as well and a 25kg swine could tolerate a 500gm dose of 0.005% poison, it would be safe to that we could tolerate at least 1kg of it.  

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On Jan 14, 2011, at 09:12 AM, ILPI <info**At_Symbol_Here**ILPActu ally what theyI.COM> wrote:

Wow, what a teachable moment that artic le is.  I'm sure that lay persons and the families of these kids foun d this hard to swallow (ooo, a pun):

Em ergency crews also contacted the manufacturer, which informed them that th ere has never been a known case of someone being poisoned by the product.< /font>

"This particular poison, f or human consumption, would have to be consumed in a much larger quantity to be toxic," Talmadge said.

Sure enough , when you look it up: one/bromad_prf_0185.html you find that while this stuff is incredibly toxic to rats, mice and poultry, that for other species:

Dogs: Acute Toxicity - The maximum tolerated oral dosage (MTD) is 1 0
               mg/kg.  For a 10 kg dog, this corresponds to 100 mg of p
ure               Bromadiolone; that is, 2 kilos of bait 
at the dosage of               0.005%.  From 15 mg/kg on, hemorrhages b
egin to appear               starting from the third day.  They are fat
al unless we               administer an intravenous injection of Vitam
in K1 (5 mg/kg of               body weight).               Chronic 
Toxicity - Daily dosages of 0.5 mg to 1 mg/kg which               corre
sponds to 10 to 20 g of bait at the dosage of 0.005% of               a
ctive material per kilo of body weight, cause no fatal               re
action.  On the other hand, the ingestion of 200 g of bait   
            (10 mg/kg of active material) per kilo of body weight for               several days can cause mortality.  This haz
ard is unrealistic,               considering the total amount of bait 
that has to be consumed               for several days.      Cats:  
  The cat is more resistant than the dog.  The maximum tolerated       
        oral dosage (MTD) stands at 25 mg/kg of active material, which 
              represents, for an animal weighing 2 kgs., a consumpti
on of               one kilo of bait at 0.005%.      
Swine:   The tests were carried out with animals of an average weight  
             of 25 kgs.               The maximum tolerated dosag
e (MTD) for 5 days was 25 mg of               active material pe
r day, per animal; that is, 500 gms. of bait               at 0.
005% of active material.               There was no noticeable 
effect after a daily ingestion of 10               gms. of bait at 0.00
5% of active material for 45 days.               No mortality was cause
d after two treatments of five days               each, separated by an
 interval of 15 days' rest, of dosages               corresponding to 1
25 gms., 250 gms., and 500 gms. of grains               treated at 0.00
5% of active material.
This sort of difference is not surprising to toxicologists, of course.  Such differences between spe cies are not uncommon, and this is just another reminder of how difficult it can be to establish "safe" levels of chemicals, particularly in the abs ence of adequate epidemiological and/or environmental studies.    

Which, of course, goes to how difficult it is to restrict chemicals that actually pose serious harm, and the hay that la wyers make with such "conflicting" data.

Speaking of lawyers, I wonder if the manufacturer prints "RAT POISON. DO NOT EAT." on the bait cubes?

Rob Toreki

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