From: Jeff Tenney <Jeff.Tenney**At_Symbol_Here**SDMYERS.COM>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Red gas identity
Date: May 24, 2013 7:19:09 PM EDT
Reply-To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU>
Message-ID: <B08465628BB05D4E9F4CD5F74ACA8F1F0166CA9E**At_Symbol_Here**>


Bromine itself forms a red vapor when mixed with air.


From Wikipedia:

Elemental bromine exists as a diatomic molecule, Br2. It is a dense, mobile, slightly transparent reddish-brown liquid, that evaporates easily at standard temperature and pressures to give an orange vapor (its color resembles nitrogen dioxide)


Not knowing the source of the bromine (pool chemical or bromine gas) It would be hard to say if the simple green was even part of the problem. I would think it is possible for bromine pool tabs to release bromine when mixed with simple green that has a PH of 9.5. To close a road for an hour? I guess if they poured the simple green into a large container of these tablets.



Some facts seem to be missing..





From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU] On Behalf Of Alan Hall
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Red gas identity


OK folks, the most common reddish orange-ish, or red-brown cloud would be of oxides of nitrogen.  Anything from simple N02 to nitrogen tetroxide or pentaxide or anything in between (or a combination therof).  How U get it out of this mixture is difficult to say.  Could the bromine (more likely a bromide salt or acid) have just been a catalyst?


In any case, if was NOx, then medically, delayed non-cardiogenic pulmonary edema (up to 72 hours after exposure) would be a concern, which sometimes has a sudden onset and is sometimes rather rapidly fatal.


Last time I had a lab accident with bromine is when we had an organic chemistry lab as undergrads in the basement of the new science building.  The maintenance guys had shut off all the ventilation system and power to the hoods, and nobody notified anybody.  So we had about 50 chemical apparati cooking of HBr and when it became intolerable, everybody (myself included) panicked and evacuated, and nobody shut off the bunsen biurners so the whole mess continued to cook of Hbr.  Needless to say, our local HAZMAT guys were less than happy with us and our lab instructor when they had to come shut everything down in Level A!



Alan H. Hall, M.D.

Medical YToxicologist

Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 13:28:55 -0400
From: actsnyc**At_Symbol_Here**CS.COM
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Red gas identity

OK, class.  Below is the Google article about a mixture that created  "a red smoke."   The two chemicals were Simple Green and some kind of bromine pool chemical.  Could that smoke have been bromine vapor?  Or what?


Simple Green is a couple of detergents and 2-butoxyethanol (at least this is what it is this week since it changes a lot).   Any ideas on what was happening here?



HAZMAT TEAM CLEARS ACCIDENTAL CHEMICAL MIX IN COLUMBIA 1.,0,6138930.story Tags: us_MD, public, release, injury, bromine, cleaners A Howard County Department of Fire and Rescue Services hazardous materials team cleared a potentially hazard chemical mixture Wednesday morning caused by a cleaning crew at the Columbia Athletic Club. According to a department spokesman, the crew was dispatched to the 5400 block of Beaverkill Road in Columbia at 8:35 a.m. after members of the cleaning crew accidentally mixed Bromine and "Simple Green," an all-purpose cleaner. The spokesman said the accidental mixture caused a red smoke, which was inhaled by one of the cleaning employees. The employee was taken to Howard County General Hospital as a precaution, according to the spokesman. The incident caused a road closure for over an hour. The incident was cleared by 10:09 a.m., according to the department'sTwitter account.

Monona Rossol, M.S., M.F.A., Industrial Hygienist

President:  Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety, Inc.

Safety Officer: Local USA829, IATSE

181 Thompson St., #23

New York, NY 10012     212-777-0062


-----Original Message-----
From: Debbie M. Decker <dmdecker**At_Symbol_Here**UCDAVIS.EDU>
Sent: Fri, May 24, 2013 1:11 pm
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] (M)SDS access

If the power’s out, ya’ll should be out of the building anyway or at least not working with chemicals.  And if your Fire folks are like my Fire folks, they have electronic access to multiple (M)SDS resources on the rig, if it’s an emergency causing the power outage.


I encourage my folks to have paper copies of the (M)SDS for the chemicals they use all the time, every day.  And paper copies of the half dozen or so most hazardous materials they work with.  Typically, it ends up being maybe 12 or 15 hardcopy (M)SDS.  Then to place a link on the shared computers to the (M)SDS database.


Sez me!


Debbie M. Decker, CCHO

Safety Manager

Department of Chemistry

University of California, Davis

1 Shields Ave.

Davis, CA  95616




Birkett's hypothesis: "Any chemical reaction

that proceeds smoothly under normal conditions,

can proceed violently in the presence of an idiot."





From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU] On Behalf Of Bradley, Shelly
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] (M)SDS access


Doesn’t the requirement for (M)SDS access even during a power outage by default require paper copies? Or am I missing something?



Shelly Bradley


Authorized OSHA Trainer
Instrumentation Specialist
Laboratory Development Assistant
Campus Chemical Compliance Director
Department of Chemistry
Hendrix College
Conway, AR 72032
(501) 450-3812


From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU] On Behalf Of ILPI Support
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 6:55 AM
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] (M)SDS access


Our MSDS FAQ has not yet been updated for GHS, but these two requirements do not appear to have changed. the "ready access" requirement.


Rob Toreki



Safety Emporium - Lab & Safety Supplies featuring brand names

you know and trust.  Visit us at

esales**At_Symbol_Here**  or toll-free: (866) 326-5412

Fax: (856) 553-6154, PO Box 1003, Blackwood, NJ 08012


On May 23, 2013, at 10:02 PM, Peter Zavon <pzavon**At_Symbol_Here**ROCHESTER.RR.COM> wrote:

The OSHA requirements of (M)SDS availability are not changing.  You can make them available on line, as long as there are no impediments to access.  For example, no individual who ought to have access should have to go to a supervisor’s office or seek help or permission from another to get on line and review one. (This is paraphrasing an OSHA representative presenting on the Hazcom 2012 implementation this week at the AIHce in Montreal.) In addition, you must have some sort of backup function to provide immediate access to (M)SDS in the event of a power failure, etc., when access is needed.


On the issue of whether it would be acceptable to make available an Aldrich (M)SDS on sodium hydroxide when your NaOH is from Fisher, my less authoritative response is that my impression of the HazCom 2012 changes would make that UNacceptable.  But others may read it differently.



Peter Zavon, CIH
Penfield, NY




From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDUOn Behalf Of Strode, Kyle
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 2:35 PM
Subject: [DCHAS-L] (M)SDS access


I am in the process of deciding whether to recommend that my college pay to subscribe to an (M)SDS service (ChemWatch) or download and store my own repository of (M)SDS pdf's.  I'd be grateful for your thoughts about the proper way to manage access to (M)SDS by employers.

  • Do we have to have paper copies storied in a physical shelf location, or is a site license to ChemWatch OK.  Can I simply maintain an easily accessible link to a folder of downloaded pdf's on our server?
  • If I have a bottle of sodium hydroxide from Fisher and a downloaded (M)SDS for NaOH from Aldrich, does that meet the OSHA requirement?
  • Are others using ChemWatch, and is it a good system (worth the money)?
  • Are there other considerations I should be aware of as I weigh the $2000 yearly fee against the tedium of maintaining the system myself?

Thanks for your thoughts!


Kyle Strode


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