From: "Alnajjar, Mikhail S" <ms.alnajjar**At_Symbol_Here**PNNL.GOV>
Subject: Re: FW: [DCHAS-L] [DCHAS-L] chemicals and bikes
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2014 17:10:19 +0000
Reply-To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU>
Message-ID: 67518ED493A5794FB21A7CA33CD03C7A840447**At_Symbol_Here**
In-Reply-To <1405526511.75668.YahooMailNeo**At_Symbol_Here**>

It is amazing to me how we go around, and around, and around some more - always blaming higher management for safety and how institutions, companies, schools, and a like do nothing to provide safe working environment for their employees.  Yes, it is true that at times they can be blamed.  But, let us not be blinded to the fact that the ultimate responsibility falls on the employee who is in the trenches doing the work.  You can have a utopian system, but if not followed by the staff, it will mean nothing.  As Roger indicated below, the responsibility, at the end, falls on the shoulders of all involved:"safety culture" that engages personnel at all levels is needed to ensure the safety of all personnel". I would like to emphasize "ALL LEVEL".




From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU]On Behalf Of Roger McClellan
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] FW: [DCHAS-L] chemicals and bikes


To all:

    Up till now,  I have  resisted responding to this string of e-mails. I was actually flabbergasted by the initial inquiry. However, in a private conversation with a colleague the response to me was I just did not understand how Universities worked and how low safety professionals typically  were in the University hierarcy.

      I am responding today because we have additional front page  headlines about how one of the world's alleged leading health institutions, the CDC , has failed to follow its own rules for handling dangerous biological agents and failed to adequately inspect other laboratories. As you all know, the world of chemical safety and biological safety are joined at the hip. In both arenas, there is a need for science based safety procedures. That requires rigorous analysis and development of codified rules for conduct to minimize the potential for any adverse impact on faculty, staff, students and the public.

      In my view, a "chemical waste storage" facility is exactly what is stated, it is a  "chemical waste storage " facility. I find it difficult to comprehend how a faculty member , who should be providing leadership for creating a safe environment would even suggest the "chemical waste  storage room" could also be used for "bike storage" . The reasons are clear as suggested by someone that the "chemical waste storage" room might contain corrosive vapors. If someone has a chemical waste storage facility in which it is obvious that corrosive vapors are present I hope it is evident to them they need to do a thorough analysis of the facility as to the adequacy of the operating procedures including ventilation. The analysis should have a cradle to grave orientation that considers all chemicals from the time of ordering to delivery to storage to use and on through to disposal. It is a linked system. The "chemical waste storage" room should be specific for the purpose not just a convenient empty room.

      However, the real bottom line message, out of what I view as a nonsensical exchange, is that a "safety culture" that engages personnel at all levels is needed to ensure the safety of all personnel. Teaching institutions have a special responsibility since they should be educating students as to best practices. It is unfortunate the Judge in the UCLA case did not impose penalties on officials of the University at all levels that contributed to a culture that accepted unsafe practices at UCLA. Everyone needs to learn from that case..

      In my opinion, an institution that has faculty  who raise  the question of whether a "chemical storage room " may also for convenience be used as a "bike storage" area does not have the appropriate "safety culture". for educating future generations.

      Best wishes to all who toil in the trenches to create and maintain safe work environments.



Roger O. McClellan, DVM, MMS, DSc (Honorary)

Diplomate - ABT and ABVT; Fellow- ATS, AAAR, SRA , HPS, and AAAS

Member - Institute of Medicine

Advisor, Toxicology and Risk Analysis



On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 6:13 AM, Wayne Wood <wayne.wood**At_Symbol_Here**MCGILL.CA> wrote:


Good point, David.  Many cyclists have switched over to carbon composite frames in order to have the option of storing their bikes in corrosives storage areas. 


Sorry, couldn't resist, vacation on the horizon.J




Wayne Wood | Associate Director, University Safety (EHS), University Services -Directeur Adjoint, Direction de la pre´vention (SSE), Services universitaires |McGill University | 3610 rue McTavish Street, 4th floor | Montreal, Quebec, Canada, H3A 1Y2 | Tel: (514) 398-2391






From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU]On Behalf Of DAVID
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] chemicals and bikes


I personally think that storing bikes in the chemmical storage area is not a good idea.  That said, has anyone considered the long term damage to the bikes from chemical fumes in the storage area?  From my experience, even stainless steel "corrodes" in a chemical storage area on long term exposure.


  David A. Katz             
  Chemist, Educator, Expert Demonstrator, Science Communicator, and Consultant  
  Programs and workshops for teachers, schools, museums, and the public
  133 N. Desert Stream Dr. * Tucson, AZ 85745-2277 *  USA
  voice/fax: (520) 624-2207 * email: mailto:dakatz45**At_Symbol_Here**
           Visit my web site:

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 7:46 AM

Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] chemicals and bikes


Perhaps caging off the space if the storage facility you need for waste? Ventilation will flow thru chain link, security can be managed, you'll just need to make sure emergency responders and others can get access to the waste as necessary (i.e. bikes not blocking waste cage door access).




Timothy M. Hauser, CHMM, CCHO
Manager, Environmental, Health & Safety

Promega Corporation
2800 Woods Hollow Road, Madison WI 53711 USA
Timothy.Hauser**At_Symbol_Here** | Direct (608) 298-4807 | Cell: (262) 844-1665 | Fax: (608) 277-2677


This electronic message contains confidential information and may be legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete the original.


From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU]On Behalf Of Russ Phifer
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 7:49 PM
Subject: [DCHAS-L] chemicals and bikes


Leslie - It doesn't sound like you need much space; How about an aluminum storage building set up inside the storage area? Just a thought, since that could address the security issue and you should even be able to provide ventilation for the storage building if the logistics are right.




Russ Phifer

WC Environmental, LLC

1085C Andrew Drive

West Chester, PA  19380

Fax 800-858-6273

Cell - 610-322-0657


PPlease consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail or any other document




From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU]On Behalf Of Leslie Coop
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 6:53 PM
To: mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Cal/OSHA Safety Sign-in Sheet Requirement


There is a room in an older science building that was originally designed for chemical storage; I am taking it over for our 180-day chemical waste accumulation area. Over the past few years it has been used for general storage (old chalkboards) and for faculty bike storage while they are on campus. The question is, can they continue to keep bikes in there along with the chemical waste.


I have said it's not a good idea due to security (number of people with access) and training issues, as Debbie mentioned. Two of the faculty in on the discussion are from the chemistry department, so feel they should continue to be able to access the space. One of them recently had his bicycle stolen from the hallway outside his office, so secure bike storage is really a hot button for him right now. There are two bike racks just outside the building, but during the school year these are usually quite full. Most of the faculty offices aren't large enough to keep a bike in while working, and if they are in the hallways the fire exits get blocked. This is an issue all over campus, I'm just making it more difficult by taking away the science faculty's locked room. They asked for input from my professional organization, so Thanks!




On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 3:23 PM, Debbie M. Decker <dmdecker**At_Symbol_Here**> wrote:

Yeah - we're a big bike campus, too.  Working with the bike folks and the grounds folks, getting enough secure bike storage around the building helps a lot.


To questions like that, I usually respond, "Must we?" and then start to make sure what they want to do won't compromise compliance or fire code or exiting or potentially damage the bike.  I presume they want to store the bikes in the waste room because it's more secure than outdoors.  If something goes wrong in the waste room, would they really want their bike in there?  Can you maintain exiting?  Can your hazardous waste haulers access what they need to access without tripping over bicycles?  Are they properly trained to be in the waste room?  They'll need to have at least awareness level training for hazardous waste operations and that has to be refreshed annually.  You can make it painful and bureaucratic - that might work to discourage them.


Hope this helps - just a few ideas off the top of my head.





Debbie M. Decker, CCHO

Safety Manager

Department of Chemistry

University of California, Davis

122 Chemistry

1 Shields Ave.

Davis, CA  95616




Birkett's hypothesis: "Any chemical reaction

that proceeds smoothly under normal conditions,

can proceed violently in the presence of an idiot."





From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU]On Behalf Of Leslie Coop

Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 9:21 AM
To: mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU

Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Cal/OSHA Safety Sign-in Sheet Requirement


Faculty want to know: Is is okay to store bicycles in the same room as with chemical waste?


(They don't like my answer) 




Leslie Coop, MS, CCHO, CHMM

Chemical Hygiene Officer/ Stockroom Manager

Willamette University - 900 State Str - Salem, Oregon 97301

Leslie Coop, MS, CCHO, CHMM

Chemical Hygiene Officer/ Stockroom Manager

Willamette University - 900 State Str - Salem, Oregon 97301


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