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From: pzavon**At_Symbol_Here**ROCHESTER.RR.COM
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Melbourne, Victoria, AU - Facial Coverings
Date: Oct 14, 2020 20:12 UTC
Reply-To:
ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety
In-Reply-To: Re: [DCHAS-L] Melbourne, Victoria, AU - Facial Coverings
On the contrary, while trying to correct the misapplication of a scientific term where possible we must also recognize what that term means to those who will receive our communications, and to those whose communications we are responding. The current popular understanding of what herd immunity is MUST be taken into account in all communications, because any communication these days is likely to make it into the popular, or political, arena.
As an unrelated example, the popular understanding of the term "theory" (="I have an idea that . . ) leads to radical misunderstanding of the meaning of the phrase "Einstein's Theory of Relativity." While we continue to use "theory" in the scientific sense, we are never going to correct the popular misunderstanding and we always need to recognize that (mis)understanding when talking about Relativity or other scientific theories.
Peter Zavon, CIH
Penfield, NY
PZAVON**At_Symbol_Here**Rochester.rr.com
From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU> On Behalf Of Yaritza Brinker
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 9:11 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Melbourne, Victoria, AU - Facial Coverings
Scientific terms have a definition. When popular media hijacks a scientific term, we should do our best to stick to the actual definition and educate the public. Otherwise, we cannot communicate effectively. Instead we end-up in long debates over who is right, wrong, and righteous. Walking around in circles over semantics.
Thank you,
Yaritza Brinker
260.827.5402
From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU> On Behalf Of Reinhardt, Peter
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 7:04 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Melbourne, Victoria, AU - Facial Coverings
** External Email **
I agree that herd immunity via widespread vaccination is an important public health goal.
In this tread and in the popular press, the advocates of "heard immunity" are using the term to mean spread of the infection through the unvaccinated population without implementing safeguards such as masking and distancing. This is how the authors in the Nature paper I cited explained heard immunity.
Pete
From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU> on behalf of Yaritza Brinker <YBrinker**At_Symbol_Here**FELE.COM>
Reply-To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU>
Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 at 5:15 AM
To: "DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU" <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Melbourne, Victoria, AU - Facial Coverings
I think it's gravely unethical to argue against herd immunity. Before you all lynch me- please put down your proverbial pitchforks and indulge me for a bit.
Vocabulary is important in all discussions. Especially true in hot-button ones.
From the CDC Glossary available at https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/terms/glossary.html
Community immunity: A situation in which a sufficient proportion of a population is immune to an infectious disease (through vaccination and/or prior illness) to make its spread from person to person unlikely. Even individuals not vaccinated (such as newborns and those with chronic illnesses) are offered some protection because the disease has little opportunity to spread within the community. Also known as herd immunity.
So, I'll say it again- I think it's gravely unethical to argue against herd immunity.
The following article from Johns Hopkins argues about how best to achieve herd immunity. That IS the actual issue facing the nation.
https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/achieving-herd-immunity-with-covid19.html
Thank you,
Yaritza Brinker
260.827.5402
From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU> On Behalf Of Monona Rossol
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 2:25 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Melbourne, Victoria, AU - Facial Coverings
** External Email **
Absolutely unethical. And I will be looking forward to the Disney stats this winter because of the indoor ventilation and sanitizing issues. We know how to make it work indoors, but now we know the dang bug can last 28 days on a hard surface. Oy. Monona
-----Original Message-----
From: Reinhardt, Peter <peter.reinhardt**At_Symbol_Here**YALE.EDU>
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Sent: Tue, Oct 13, 2020 12:31 pm
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Melbourne, Victoria, AU - Facial Coverings
I think it is unethical to advocate herd immunity because it would mean 500,000-2,100,000 preventable deaths in the U.S.
As safety professionals and human beings, we should support the use of simple safety measures (masks, distancing) to prevent even one death. That's ethics 101.
Regarding Disney World, being outdoors is a terrific mitigation measure for aerosol transmission. Winter will be challenge because we are indoors and the relative humidity is lower.
Pete Reinhardt, Yale EHS
From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU> on behalf of Rob Torkei <info**At_Symbol_Here**ILPI.COM>
Reply-To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU>
Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 11:46 AM
To: "DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU" <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Melbourne, Victoria, AU - Facial Coverings
Interesting article that addresses cultural differences: https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertpearl/2020/10/12/why-half-a-million-americans-will-die-from-covid-19/#5fc3fb8d1736
I had a discussion with a friend who believes masks don't stop the spread and that full-on herd immunity is the way to go. He pointed out the lack of super spreading at Disney World as an example of concerns being overblown: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/09/business/disney-world-coronavirus.html (although there are some accusations of coverup and concerns about lack of contract tracing to people's home states).
When I looked into the Disney thing further, I was rather astonished: https://www.disneytouristblog.com/faq-guide-face-masks-disney-world/ Disney has really tough mask rules with really high compliance. In other words, my friend's example strongly supported my contentions about mask usage, not his. But he didn't want to discuss it after I pointed this out.
Rob Toreki
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