DCHAS-L Archives, Sep 1, 2022 - Re: [DCHAS-L] Hats in lab

Good on you Meg. I'd love to see demos of that presented to the hair and makeup people in Local 479. And we could finish with a video showing Michael Jackson's accident when the pyro lit his 'fro on fire.

NOW for another issue for our Local 829 costumers: DON'T let people launder their own lab coats. If there are anti-static or fabric softener chemicals in the detergent, of if they use an additive or dryer sheet, the lab coat is more combustible as well. We've set actresses in long dresses of inherently fire-retardant fabrics on fire this way.

Monona

-----Original Message-----

From: Meg Osterby <megosterby**At_Symbol_Here**GMAIL.COM>
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2022 4:44 pm
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Hats in lab

When I was teaching at the technical college I did not allow hats with a brim in lab if a Bunsen burner was in use. I learned years ago in a Girl Scout leader training that hair care products are intended to coat the hair shafts to style or make the hair more manageable. That includes ordinary shampoo. In doing so, those products, which are organic chemicals, make the hair much more flammable. That's why we insist on hair tired back for lab when burners are in use. (We also want to keep the hair out of the face so it doesn't need to be repeatedly touched which would transfer lab chemicals to the hair or face.) But, those same residues of hair care products transfer to hats. And when they do, the hat becomes more flammable as well. Therefore it becomes a danger if a flame in in use.

The GS leader training involved demonstrating the increased flammability of hair dye to hair care products, while we were at the evening bonfire. A woman's daughter has gotten her very long hair cut short and the mom had kept the hair, tired it into a pony tail, and into a long stick. She then moved it close to the fire. The hair didn't ignite, but she never got it closer than a yard from the flames. Then she took a dollop of gel mousse and worked out into the hair. After waiting for it to be fully dry, she again brought that hair close to the flame and the flame jumped to it and ignited it when it was still more than a yard from the flames.

Having seen that, the increased flammability of hair from hair care products also stayed with me. When my own daughter had her long hair cut, I also kept the pony tail, but I actually split it into two tails. One I washed with just water, the other with shampoo. I took them into the lab with me on a Saturday, when only my lab assistant and I were there. When the hair was dry, I set up a Bunsen burner and a meter stick so I could measure how close to the flame I brought to hair. I tried the water only shank to a metal rod and it ignited at 4 inches from the flames. The shampooed hair ignited at 9 inches. The flames jumped that far. I was shocked because I'd often seen students leaning their head on a hand less than a foot from a lit burner, so I realized they'd been damn lucky as I had professionally that no student had ever had their hair burst into flames.

So I added a rule to the safety rules, that not only must hair be tied back, but students must never have their heads closer than a foot from a burner. And having seen the fire first hand, I was much more watchful for such behavior. And I also said no hats with brims (which neatly about the problem with hats or scarves worn for ethnic or religious reasons) if there were flames in use. Explaining the rationale for the rule meant I never had a student fight it. Who wants to make their own head or hair likely to burst into flames?

I never did the experiment with a hat, but you can see the oily transfer to a hat that's frequently worn in many cases, and no student ever doubted that the hat would have become flammable by their wearing it.

I put all the lab safety rules into a document that was given to the students on the first day of lab, and were reinforced by me prior to each lab. I also made signs that I hung in lab for many of them, and I changed them out frequently. (I glued Velcro hooks to the walls and the loops to the backs of the small signs so they were easy to swap out with signs that were specific to that experiment.

Feel free to use my ideas. I've learned so much from this list-serve over the years, and although I am retired, lab safety and kitchen safety aren't that different, so I'm still kept safer by this forum.

Thanks to all who have contributed their ideas to this forum over the years.

Meg Osterby

On Wed, Aug 31, 2022, 10:51 AM Kirk Hunter <kirk.p.hunter**At_Symbol_Here**gmail.com> wrote:

I am reminded of this parody verse from "The Streets of Laredo."

Sing along!

I see by your outfit that you are a cowboy;
I see by your outfit you are a cowboy, too;

We see by our outfits that we are both cowboys.

If you get an outfit, you can be a cowboy, too.

Kirk Hunter

On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 9:14 AM Monona Rossol <0000030664c37427-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**lists.princeton.edu> wrote:

By their brims ye shall judge them. Monona

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Lewin <jclewin**At_Symbol_Here**MTU.EDU>
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Sent: Wed, Aug 31, 2022 9:44 am
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Hats in lab

You can actually buy a Vulcan® Cowboy Style Hard Hat. I second having a private conversation with the student...but it does beg the question if you ask that student to remove their cowboy hat should you ask anyone wearing a trucker's/baseball style cap to remove it as well....and when does a hat get "too big?" Presumably you don't want people wearing sombreros in the lab?

Jeff

On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 9:30 AM Shawn Helmueller <schelmueller**At_Symbol_Here**gmail.com> wrote:

Another approach if it’s determined that the safety risk is low relative to other common headdress is this, no one in industry is going to tell the CEO or CSO they can’t wear a cowboy hat in their own lab. As long as he’s on pace for exceptional performance in the class maybe the hat can stay??

I’m quibbling a bit, lab safety is paramount and your lab conditions may be unique. But students can respond well to low risk challenges like this, and it could serve as a valuable authentic experience he remembers long after leaving your class.

Regards,

Shawn Helmueller

On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 8:58 AM Gilman, Lisa <00001730fb194cb8-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**lists.princeton.edu> wrote:

Hi Nora:

I agree with Richard. Peripheral vision is not likely to be blocked by a cowboy hat. Laboratory work with Hard Hats/Full Face shields/Baseball caps have never been an issue in our laboratory here in Montana. If students are in such close proximity that the hat is an issue, in my opinion, you have a class density that is more of a safety concern and much more important to address than a cowboy hat.

I would simply ask the student in a private conversation to remove his hat during the laboratory class. Keep it simple. Your concern about knocking over glassware or reagents is an appropriate reason if he asks for one.

Lisa Gilman

Silver Bow Montana

IND - Environment Rehabilitation

T (406) 782-1215

| www.solvay.com

Mailing Address:

PO Box 3146

Butte MT 59702-3146

Physical Location:

119130 German Gulch Road

Silver Bow MT 59750-9732

On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 6:35 AM Richard Palluzi <000006c59248530b-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**lists.princeton.edu> wrote:

Hats, mostly baseball caps or knit caps, are very common in industry in my experience. Hard hats are also very common in plant labs both for visitors and often for folks who are in and about a lot. Cowboy hats are pretty rare. I have never heard of an accident.

On Aug 30, 2022 2:09 PM, Nora Dunkel <noradunkel51**At_Symbol_Here**WEBSTER.EDU> wrote:

Does anyone have guidance on wearing hats in lab? An instructor for sophomore organic chemistry at my institution reports that a student has repeatedly come to lab wearing a cowboy hat. The student is otherwise appropriately dressed, but we wonder about visibility (will the student's peripheral vision be obstructed?), whether people might bump into the hat, and whether the hat might knock over glassware. (It's a pretty crowded room when everybody is setting up their apparatus.)

Is this something others have encountered? Are hats in lab acceptable from a safety perspective?

Nora Dunkel, CHMM

Chemical Safety Officer--Webster University

ISB/Browning Hall 314

314-246-2244 (desk)

661-348-1445 (cell)

noradunkel51**At_Symbol_Here**webster.edu

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