From:
Robin M. Izzo <rmizzo**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:
Re: [DCHAS-L] Maitland Jones story
Date:
Oct 14, 2022 11:35 UTC
Reply-To:
ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU>
Message-ID:
<57722640-579F-4160-B13F-6856083F518C**At_Symbol_Here**princeton.edu>
In-Reply-To:
<170FF318-5595-419F-BF34-8119F4320C26**At_Symbol_Here**gmail.com>
I’ve had the pleasure of working with Mait during his tenure here. His lab at Princeton was fantastic. He had a reputation as a tough, but inspiring teacher.
If you’d like to read more perspectives, I recommend an article and an op-ed in the Daily Princetonian (The Prince), our student newspaper.
The first includes feedback from alumni and current Chemistry faculty. The second discusses how professional schools and employers view “weed out” courses.
Alumni respond to Professor Emeritus Maitland Jones Jr’s firing from NYU
How the professional world takes advantage of classes like Maitland Jones’s
Robin Izzo
Assistant Vice President
Environmental Health and Safety
Princeton University
On Oct 14, 2022, at 7:02 AM, Doug Walters <waltersdbw**At_Symbol_Here**gmail.com> wrote:
Well said Monona.
i agree with you Peter
Doug Walters, PhD, FACS
Retired
“Let’s not lose our heads about this."
Probably said by French chemist Antoine de Lavoisier ~ 1794
Send the attendant away. She is not needed.
The downfall began when Regan put colleges and universities on a "business" model basis. When colleges and universities must be profit making businesses, they have to appeal to their "clients"
which are, sadly, the students. A college competes for students by promising a great football team, a place to drink and party, and to easily get a degree. No college could succeed by telling prospective students they are going to work their asses off,
have little time for a private life, and actually might not make it to graduation if they aren't diligent and smart.
You all have zero chance of turning this around as long as the structure of colleges remains the same. And you need to throw out the teachers who sell that crap about learning can all be
"fun." There are times learning is just plain hard. Teachers can sympathize and support, but the work must be done by the student. And learning to accept working hard is the best preparation for life and eventually making difficult things fun.
And I watched over the years as all the really hard courses in chemistry and art disappeared from the curriculum. For example, in art, we had an anatomy course requiring us to know the
names of all the primary and secondary muscles, their origins and insertions, and be able to draw them free hand. The same with the 102 bones and drawing the hip, knee and shoulder joints free hand. When we passed this part of the course we progress to drawing
from the nude model. That was like a revelation because we knew why the contours looked the way they did. The chalk and the brush just flew with confidence and understanding. NOW THE WORK HAD BECOME FUN.
Today, I pass the hallway drawing exhibits in art departments and lament the lack of understanding in the "potato" people I see drawn there.
It's the same in all the courses. The foundation isn't there. The work ethic isn't there.
The other thing that must change is allowing students to specialize too soon. Currently, they can graduate without any knowledge of whole areas of learning. In the past, you couldn't get
a degree without a year of English, Math, Chemistry, Physics (two sciences) and history. People graduate today without any sense of the historical context into which their specialized field fits.
In other words, I believe we need a liberal arts education before we narrow into a specialty.
My attendant is here with the straight jacket, so I'll quit now. Monona
-----Original Message-----
From: Dr Bob <drbob**At_Symbol_Here**FLOWSCIENCES.COM>
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Sent: Thu, Oct 13, 2022 1:27 pm
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Maitland Jones story
Reminds me of a biological “continuous process” where each stage imposes impossible objectives on its predecessor. We need some thinking NOW that transends
stages!
Director of Product and Technology Development
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22% of student met all four of the College Readiness Benchmark Scores. Average ACT scores now lowest since 1991.
Table 1.6 - Achievement in STEM: only 16% meet the STEM benchmark. Table 3.6 - College readiness: only 20.8% met math and English in the best prepared students, 22.2% for reading and and
21.7% for science. That’s of the *best prepared* students.
Table 1.7 - Proficiency in Understanding Complex Texts: 57% below proficient, only 19% above proficient. [Please read Chapter 7 on Electrophilic substitution before coming to class….]
When I was still teaching, we found the single best predictor of success in Gen Chem was the ACT math score. That’s because the intro courses (for right or wrong) are traditionally filled
with mostly P-Chem concepts such as gas laws, equilibria etc. that feature easily-tested math problems. So today’s report is sad news.
Anecdotally, the rate of flagrant cheating is higher than ever ( IMHO, Chegg is a pox upon society). On top of that, we can watch who logs in to do homework, how much time they spend on
it, and if they download the extras that we provide…and THAT data is utterly depressing. And that effort shown has gotten worse over the years. The good students, the motivated ones, and the ones that try hard still exist, of course.
In my mind, the single biggest problem is that colleges are admitting too many students who are simply not ready for the rigor or demands of college. If students need remedial courses,
that work needs to done before they enroll. Presumably, many campuses drop a lot of time and effort into remedial courses when they could much better spend that effort providing smaller classes, recitation sections, peer learning and other proven means to
improve the success of the students that have been properly prepared for college. I could soapbox all day about the special athlete-only tutoring center, athlete-only computer lab, etc afforded our NCAA “student athletes” (and multimillion dollar salary for
our coaching staffs) while our students who had to work to pay their way through school couldn’t even get recitation sections in genchem (and before someone says sports bring in money that’s true for only a handful of schools and a loser for all the rest).
I could go on all week about the benefits of trades and trade school as well as for deconstructing the whole traditional liberal arts model (not that it shouldn’t exist - there’s much to
be said for it, and folks should be free to pursue it) to allow for slim technical degrees at significantly lower cost and duration (as well as higher student satisfaction and better outcome).
Since when do students have the right to say a prof or course is toooo hard. I think it may be the caliber of student today.
I live and work with today’s undergraduates every day and the educational disruption they have faced over the last three years is mind-boggling to observe. As a result, mental health issues are rising throughout the student body, but particularly students whose
high school preparation was also impacted by Covid. I can’t imagine trying to absorb all of the material I was exposed to as an undergraduate engineering student today.
I stopped taking Chemistry Department classes after Gen Chem, so I can’t comment on teaching methods most appropriate to organic or higher level courses, but I suspect that what worked to help students learn in 2019 is very different that what works in 2022.
I think that the was part of the point of the article that Neal pointed to.
- Ralph
Ralph Stuart, CIH, CCHO
ralph**At_Symbol_Here**rstuartcih.org
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