DCHAS-L Archives, Oct 14, 2022 - Re: [DCHAS-L] [EXT] Re: [DCHAS-L] Maitland Jones story

Whatever the problem is, be part of the solution! I have had the privilege of interacting and working with professors who cared about students’ learning. One of their approach was to publish books for teachers and students on the subject of metacognition! Saundra has a Bachelors degree from Southern University, Masters from Cornell University and PhD From University of Tennessee. Her area of interest is Chemical Education.

Teach Students How to Learn: Strategies You Can Incorporate Into Any Course to Improve Student Metacognition, Study Skills, and Motivation

by Saundra Yancy McGuire (Author), Stephanie McGuire Thomas Angelo (Foreword)

Teach Yourself How to Learn: Strategies You Can Use to Ace Any Course at Any Level by Saundra Yancy McGuire (Author), Stephanie McGuire Mark McDaniel (Foreword)

Catherine Situma

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU> On Behalf Of Monona Rossol
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2022 2:54 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Subject: [EXT] Re: [DCHAS-L] Maitland Jones story

CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.

You didn't get it wrong. To get a degree in the sciences or even in the arts in the past, most students would not have much of a private life. All-nighters were not a myth; they were often a necessity. For the MFA program, we had an 8 hour (yes, look at that number) all day essay exam with questions about art history from the paleolithic to what was happening on the West Coast the week before.

It's no accident that countries whose politics we definitely don't agree with are turning out more and better educated graduates in math and science. Our students complain when they have to compete with them. While I don't agree with the politics in these countries, I do admire their tough learning stance. And we need to take a lesson from them. You don't get that quality of graduate without that degree of student time and effort.

Today, we need to treat each student with the same respect regardless of their social background or sex and listen to their criticisms and feelings. I was highly discriminated against in the 50s and 60s as a woman in both chemistry and art, and that definitely needed change.

But schools must return firm control over the subject matter back to teachers. Teachers must not compromise on the requirements, that is, what students need to learn and be able to demonstrate in order to pass. The same exam should be administered to all the students and graded on the same curve. Failing an exam can also be a highly informative experience. The test only discriminates against someone who for some reason cannot answer the questions. And that should not be negotiable.

As a teacher, I often learn from my students about how to make something clearer, how to express myself without offending some sensibility, and so on. But students do NOT teach a qualified teacher about their subject.

Monona

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Nowlan <dnowlan**At_Symbol_Here**BERRYMANPRODUCTS.COM>
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Sent: Fri, Oct 14, 2022 2:20 pm
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Maitland Jones story

When we talk about “the hard courses” disappearing (at the undergraduate level), this is no joke. I started my college career in 1993, got out in 8 semesters with a BS in chemistry, and never looked back. As a full-time college student working 42 hours a week to pay for school, books, gas, etc., it thoroughly kicked. my. ass. Chemistry and physics courses and labs were just brutal, and those weekly lab papers kept me up ‘til 3 and 4am routinely. (25 years later I still can’t sleep right.)

Fast forward 20 years when my wife started her college career, and the curriculum and workload were unrecognizable. Her undergrad degree was a BAIS (education), but she still had to take the “same” science lectures and labs that I took. I was initially quite concerned about her ability to “get it” (because science just isn’t her forte), only to find out that both the class and the lab had been so watered-down by that point (2015ish) that both were really a breeze for her…to the point I didn’t even have/get to tutor her.

I’m not entirely sure what the implications are for the future of STEM in the US, but I suspect it’s not good. We already lag behind much of the civilized world in secondary education since we coddle students of all ages while tending to only teach how to pass standardized tests (here in Texas anyway). Add simplified “higher education” for the masses to that equation and it seems we could reasonably expect to fall behind technologically, too. “Look under your seat. You get a degree! You get a degree! Everybody gets a degree!” - Oprah

But maybe, hopefully, I am wrong. After all, I do only have two letters after my name….

Dan

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU> On Behalf Of Monona Rossol
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2022 2:25 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Maitland Jones story

The downfall began when Regan put colleges and universities on a "business" model basis. When colleges and universities must be profit making businesses, they have to appeal to their "clients" which are, sadly, the students. A college competes for students by promising a great football team, a place to drink and party, and to easily get a degree. No college could succeed by telling prospective students they are going to work their asses off, have little time for a private life, and actually might not make it to graduation if they aren't diligent and smart.

You all have zero chance of turning this around as long as the structure of colleges remains the same. And you need to throw out the teachers who sell that crap about learning can all be "fun." There are times learning is just plain hard. Teachers can sympathize and support, but the work must be done by the student. And learning to accept working hard is the best preparation for life and eventually making difficult things fun.

And I watched over the years as all the really hard courses in chemistry and art disappeared from the curriculum. For example, in art, we had an anatomy course requiring us to know the names of all the primary and secondary muscles, their origins and insertions, and be able to draw them free hand. The same with the 102 bones and drawing the hip, knee and shoulder joints free hand. When we passed this part of the course we progress to drawing from the nude model. That was like a revelation because we knew why the contours looked the way they did. The chalk and the brush just flew with confidence and understanding. NOW THE WORK HAD BECOME FUN.

Today, I pass the hallway drawing exhibits in art departments and lament the lack of understanding in the "potato" people I see drawn there.

It's the same in all the courses. The foundation isn't there. The work ethic isn't there.

The other thing that must change is allowing students to specialize too soon. Currently, they can graduate without any knowledge of whole areas of learning. In the past, you couldn't get a degree without a year of English, Math, Chemistry, Physics (two sciences) and history. People graduate today without any sense of the historical context into which their specialized field fits.

In other words, I believe we need a liberal arts education before we narrow into a specialty.

My attendant is here with the straight jacket, so I'll quit now. Monona

-----Original Message-----
From: Dr Bob <drbob**At_Symbol_Here**FLOWSCIENCES.COM>
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Sent: Thu, Oct 13, 2022 1:27 pm
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Maitland Jones story

Hi Rob!

Reminds me of a biological “continuous process” where each stage imposes impossible objectives on its predecessor. We need some thinking NOW that transends stages!

Dr. Bob Haugen

Director of Product and Technology Development

Flow Sciences, Inc.

910 332 4878

www.flowsciences.com
Linkedin – Facebook – Youtube – Twitter

Customer Satisfaction Survey

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From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU> On Behalf Of Info
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2022 1:12 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Maitland Jones story

New report today from the folks who bring you the ACT exam. Damn depressing. https://www.act.org/content/dam/act/unsecured/documents/2022/2022-National-ACT-Profile-Report.pdf More data etc. here https://www.act.org/content/act/en/research/services-and-resources/data-and-visualization/grad-class-database-2022.html A few pertinent highlights to this thread:

22% of student met all four of the College Readiness Benchmark Scores. Average ACT scores now lowest since 1991.

Table 1.6 - Achievement in STEM: only 16% meet the STEM benchmark. Table 3.6 - College readiness: only 20.8% met math and English in the best prepared students, 22.2% for reading and and 21.7% for science. That’s of the *best prepared* students.

Table 1.7 - Proficiency in Understanding Complex Texts: 57% below proficient, only 19% above proficient. [Please read Chapter 7 on Electrophilic substitution before coming to class….]

When I was still teaching, we found the single best predictor of success in Gen Chem was the ACT math score. That’s because the intro courses (for right or wrong) are traditionally filled with mostly P-Chem concepts such as gas laws, equilibria etc. that feature easily-tested math problems. So today’s report is sad news.

Anecdotally, the rate of flagrant cheating is higher than ever ( IMHO, Chegg is a pox upon society). On top of that, we can watch who logs in to do homework, how much time they spend on it, and if they download the extras that we provide…and THAT data is utterly depressing. And that effort shown has gotten worse over the years. The good students, the motivated ones, and the ones that try hard still exist, of course.

In my mind, the single biggest problem is that colleges are admitting too many students who are simply not ready for the rigor or demands of college. If students need remedial courses, that work needs to done before they enroll. Presumably, many campuses drop a lot of time and effort into remedial courses when they could much better spend that effort providing smaller classes, recitation sections, peer learning and other proven means to improve the success of the students that have been properly prepared for college. I could soapbox all day about the special athlete-only tutoring center, athlete-only computer lab, etc afforded our NCAA “student athletes” (and multimillion dollar salary for our coaching staffs) while our students who had to work to pay their way through school couldn’t even get recitation sections in genchem (and before someone says sports bring in money that’s true for only a handful of schools and a loser for all the rest).

I could go on all week about the benefits of trades and trade school as well as for deconstructing the whole traditional liberal arts model (not that it shouldn’t exist - there’s much to be said for it, and folks should be free to pursue it) to allow for slim technical degrees at significantly lower cost and duration (as well as higher student satisfaction and better outcome).

Rob Toreki

Safety Emporium - Laboratory and Safety Supplies
https://www.SafetyEmporium.com
esales**At_Symbol_Here**safetyemporium.com or toll-free: (866) 326-5412
Fax: (856) 553-6154, PO Box 1003, Blackwood, NJ 08012

On Oct 13, 2022, at 5:18 AM, Ralph Stuart <ralph**At_Symbol_Here**rstuartcih.org> wrote:

Since when do students have the right to say a prof or course is toooo hard. I think it may be the caliber of student today.

I live and work with today’s undergraduates every day and the educational disruption they have faced over the last three years is mind-boggling to observe. As a result, mental health issues are rising throughout the student body, but particularly students whose high school preparation was also impacted by Covid. I can’t imagine trying to absorb all of the material I was exposed to as an undergraduate engineering student today.

I stopped taking Chemistry Department classes after Gen Chem, so I can’t comment on teaching methods most appropriate to organic or higher level courses, but I suspect that what worked to help students learn in 2019 is very different that what works in 2022. I think that the was part of the point of the article that Neal pointed to.

- Ralph

Ralph Stuart, CIH, CCHO
ralph**At_Symbol_Here**rstuartcih.org

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