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Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Fire extinguisher use

Date: Nov 5, 2022 16:37 UTC

Author: Debbie Decker <debbie.m.decker**At_Symbol_Here**GMAIL.COM>

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Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Fire extinguisher use

Date: Nov 6, 2022 17:00 UTC

Author: Info <info**At_Symbol_Here**ILPI.COM>

From: neal**At_Symbol_Here**CHEMICAL-SAFETY.COM

Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Fire extinguisher use

Date: Nov 5, 2022 17:45 UTC

Reply-To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU>

Message-ID: <012c01d8f13e$69904ac0$3cb0e040$@chemical-safety.com>

In-Reply-To: <CABNxZ9ccP2zK8nZMbtERS4sSudSHw=fHmwrb198BM6CRMG8JTQ**At_Symbol_Here**mail.gmail.com>

Demystify: 

Deb and all

 

Question about “dry sand or Metal-X”.  Yes, these suppress the fire but for many chemicals – white P for example – ignition is likely to recur when trying to clean up the fire residue. What procedures have you developed for the post-fire cleanup of air-reactive chemicals?

 

nl

 

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ADVANCED CHEMICAL SAFETY, Inc. (Retired)

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From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU> On Behalf Of Debbie Decker
Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2022 9:38 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Fire extinguisher use

 

I've been following this thread and have some thoughts.

 

Fire extinguisher training should be required for those who work with hazardous materials  - researchers, staff, TAs, instructors. Don't neglect facilities staff.  Undergraduates who are engaged in research should have training.  No one should be "forbidden" from using a fire extinguisher but the training aspect needs to be emphasized.

 

As to the various flavors of extinguishers:  I subscribe to the "keep it simple" principle when discussing a scary and potentially life threatening  situation.  In my various lab safety roles, I settled on ABC extinguishers for general use and dry sand for use with air reactive materials.

 

Here's my logic:  ABC extinguishers are suitable extinguishing agent for most fires in the lab.  It does deliver agent at volume and velocity and this is where training is important.  Others have mentioned agent making a fire situation worse.  Releasing an ABC extinguisher in a space will result in a significant mess to clean up.  This becomes part of the calculus whether someone uses an extinguisher or not. 

 

Dry sand (or Met-L X) will extinguish small fires - particularly metal or air reactive fires - quite efficiently.  There isn't the problem of potentially blowing a powdery flaming material around with an extinguisher.   I found researchers to be much more willing to use sand before an extinguisher. 

 

We replaced CO2 extinguishers with ABC extinguishers as CO2 in some cases can make fire worse - magnesium,  I'm looking at you.

 

We didn't have Class D extinguishers readily available.  We had one for use with outreach events where we  ignited magnesium.  There are also different types of Class D extinguishers, specific to the type of fire.  Class D extinguishers aren't really portable  - the smallest one I had was on a wheeled cart and weighed close to 60 pounds.  And it was specific to magnesium.

 

Keep it simple.   Make it easy for people in a fire situation to make the right decision without too many choices.  Stress that evacuating and pulling the fire alarm is always the safest response.

 

My $0.02.

 

My best 

Debbie

 

On Thu, Nov 3, 2022, 6:36 AM David C. Finster <dfinster**At_Symbol_Here**wittenberg.edu> wrote:

It has come to my attention (anecdotally) that some academic institutions, as a matter of local policy, forbid students to use fire extinguishers.  I am thinking more of research, than teaching, labs in this regard.  I think this is a wrong-headed policy since some small fires can be easily extinguished using fire extinguishers (usually ABC) that are required to be in labs.   Extinguishers are designed for use (using the PASS method) by untrained persons - although I would always argue for hands-on training.  I would not favor the policy that requires extinguisher use (as this could lead someone attempting to inappropriately fight a “too large” fire) but forbidding use seems foolish.

 

I ask the list:  1) How common (do you think) is the policy of forbidding use? and 2) what are the arguments for this “no use” policy?

 

Dave

 

 

David C. Finster
Professor Emeritus, Department of Chemistry
Wittenberg University

 

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