There are 5 messages totaling 762 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Phones in research labs (4)
2. [EXTERNAL] Re: [DCHAS-L] Phones in research labs
---
For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2023 18:23:37 -0500
From: Ralph Stuart <ralph**At_Symbol_Here**RSTUARTCIH.ORG>
Subject: Re: Phones in research labs
For the various reasons that people have cited, I don’t think that phones in general are a good choice for emergency communications. That’s what building fire alarms are for.
- Ralph
Ralph Stuart, CIH, CCHO
ralph**At_Symbol_Here**rstuartcih.org
---
For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2023 00:48:16 +0000
From: Monona Rossol <actsnyc**At_Symbol_Here**CS.COM>
Subject: Re: Phones in research labs
I disagree. In the 2003 power outage, everything stopped in early afternoon. All these tall buildings were full of thousands of ordinary folk who now could not get home because the trains and subways weren't working. The tunnels were closed, and hundreds of thousands of people were essentially trapped. We also learned that emergency stair lights fade and die sooner than we thought and many of these people were 50 or 100 floors up. And even if you get to the street, where do you go?
Now THINK for a moment about a wife or husband whose kids are waiting out in the suburbs to be picked up after school and Mom and Dad can't pick them up or even talk to them! Hell, Mom and Dad can't even talk to each other unless they work in the same office. Where are the kids going to go? Whose making sure they are safe? How are they getting their food, medicine, or other needs met?
One of the reasons for the landline requirement was that medical people were needed in these buildings because people, especially parents, were just plain melting down with panic.
You all need to find a way to make sure you can reach others no matter what kind of disaster occurs. And the more ways you have to do this the better. And if the land line is never needed, all the better for you. But pay that damn phone bill.
Monona
-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Glode <andy.glode**At_Symbol_Here**UNH.EDU>
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Sent: Tue, Jan 10, 2023 3:47 pm
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Phones in research labs
<!--#yiv2191807114 filtered {}#yiv2191807114 filtered {}#yiv2191807114 filtered {}#yiv2191807114 p.yiv2191807114MsoNormal, #yiv2191807114 li.yiv2191807114MsoNormal, #yiv2191807114 div.yiv2191807114MsoNormal {margin:0in;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;}#yiv2191807114 a:link, #yiv2191807114 span.yiv2191807114MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2191807114 span.yiv2191807114EmailStyle29 {font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;color:windowtext;}#yiv2191807114 .yiv2191807114MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv2191807114 filtered {}#yiv2191807114 div.yiv2191807114WordSection1 {}-->As others are highlighting, having multiple options for communication in the event of an emergency is important. But, I don’t see this as an all or nothing question, that is, whether or not all labs should have phones. A reasonable middle ground for labs is to install emergency phones in public corridors, away from the hazards, and in other areas where there is limited cell reception, or high hazards. Having a “landline” phone is likely not practical or necessary in every room in an academic teaching or research laboratory setting. Andy Glode, MS, CIH Director, Office of Environmental Health and Safety University of New Hampshire From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU>On Behalf Of Monona Rossol
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2023 3:15 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Phones in research labs CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the University System. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. That's right. And I could even get my email running by using dialup services through the landline during this time. The frame for my land line is on 13th street. So I had service. but I believe there was one other transfer frame that was damaged in lower Manhattan, and those phones were out. I also own a beautiful fieldstone farmhouse in a valley in Wisconsin that gets extremely poor reception for cell phones or TVs. And there are no cable services way out there. In the past, all this was easy since they knew how to call the hogs and yodel. Monona
-----Original Message-----
From: Hall, Eric <000018788af807db-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**LISTS.PRINCETON.EDU>
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Sent: Tue, Jan 10, 2023 1:00 pm
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Phones in research labs Yes. During 9/11, all cell phone service in Lower Manhattan was lost when the twin towers fell, and only land lines were able to call emergency service (fire, police, hospital/EMT) personnel. Lesson Learned. From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU>On Behalf Of David C. Finster
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2023 11:38 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Subject: [DCHAS-L] Phones in research labs A colleague asked: “My safety question is whether research labs are required to have phones? This used to be a requirement for safety reasons, but it is less clear in these days of ubiquitous cell phones. Our university is switching phone systems and I'm being asked whether we still need these phones in the research labs.” Best answer is… (you fill in the blank) … Dave David C. Finster
Professor Emeritus, Department of Chemistry
Wittenberg University --- For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair atmembership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org --- For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair atmembership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org --- For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair atmembership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org ---For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org
---
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2023 14:45:40 +0000
From: "David C. Finster" <dfinster**At_Symbol_Here**WITTENBERG.EDU>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [DCHAS-L] Phones in research labs
Fire alarm systems do not always alert the fire department. (One might think that they should, but they might not.)
If there is a fire, pull the fire alarm to evacuate the building. This system will probably also alert local ("on campus") resources but someone should also call 911.
(0n the campus where I worked, the fire alarm alerted Campus Security who would be dispatched to investigate and determine if there really was a fire. Gees. There are many false alarms on campuses, but if there is a fire this protocol will delay the fire response by several minutes. Fires grow fast.)
Dave
(Former volunteer firefighter for 24 years)
David C. Finster
Professor Emeritus, Department of Chemistry
Wittenberg University
-----Original Message-----
From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU> On Behalf Of Ralph Stuart
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2023 6:24 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [DCHAS-L] Phones in research labs
*** This email was sent from a non-Wittenberg email service ***
For the various reasons that people have cited, I don’t think that phones in general are a good choice for emergency communications. That’s what building fire alarms are for.
- Ralph
Ralph Stuart, CIH, CCHO
ralph**At_Symbol_Here**rstuartcih.org
---
For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org
---
For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2023 12:16:39 -0500
From: Margaret Rakas <mrakas**At_Symbol_Here**SMITH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Phones in research labs
Ralph-
if you mean cell phones aren't a good choice for emergency communications
in labs, I agree.
I don't see how activating the fire alarm going to help someone with a
seizure, or a heart attack. Much less a chemical exposure where they've
had to use the safety shower.
By having 'campus phones' available that can give the location --down to
building and room number, which is quite feasible with the newer
systems--emergency responders and campus officials-whether they are
security, EHS, or other--can get to the exact location and know whether
it's a medical emergency or another sort of emergency.
My two cents...
Margaret
On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 9:32 AM Ralph Stuart <ralph**At_Symbol_Here**rstuartcih.org> wrote:
> For the various reasons that people have cited, I don’t think that phones
> in general are a good choice for emergency communications. That’s what
> building fire alarms are for.
>
> - Ralph
>
> Ralph Stuart, CIH, CCHO
> ralph**At_Symbol_Here**rstuartcih.org
>
> ---
> For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional
> membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org
>
--
Margaret A. Rakas, Ph.D.
Lab Safety & Compliance Director
Clark Science Center
413-585-3877 (p)
---
For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2023 14:36:51 -0500
From: Ralph Stuart <ralph**At_Symbol_Here**RSTUARTCIH.ORG>
Subject: Re: Phones in research labs
> >I don't see how activating the fire alarm going to help someone with a seizure, or a heart attack. Much less a chemical exposure where they've had to use the safety shower.
>
At our school, any pull station alarm will bring a variety of responders, including professionals to help with all of the scenarios you raise. The important point you raise is that each jurisidiction will have different emergency response resources and protocols, so an answer to the “do (research) labs need phones" will require a local risk assessment similar to those for ventilation requirements, lab safety training and oversight, and PPE.
I suspect that this is the reason that a wise person added the “P” step to RAMP paradigm - this is one more element than I was taught as an industrial hygienist in training in the 1980’s. (The paradigm of the time was Recognize, Evaluate and Control, with no need for emergency planning).
- Ralph
Ralph Stuart, CIH, CCHO
ralph**At_Symbol_Here**rstuartcih.org
---
For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org
------------------------------
End of DCHAS-L Digest - 10 Jan 2023 to 11 Jan 2023 (#2023-9)
************************************************************
