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Subject:
Re: [DCHAS-L] PPE Question
Date:
Feb 22, 2023 17:58 UTC
Author:
Samuella Sigmann <sigmannsb**At_Symbol_Here**RETIRED.APPSTATE.EDU>
From:
Monona Rossol <0000030664c37427-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**LISTS.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:
Re: [DCHAS-L] C&EN: Ohio train derailment raises more questions
Date:
Feb 22, 2023 17:49 UTC
Reply-To:
Monona Rossol <actsnyc**At_Symbol_Here**cs.com>
Message-ID:
<1214631778.5335833.1677088186112**At_Symbol_Here**mail.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To:
<A83FDB73-7AE8-4A60-BC08-375950F2A209**At_Symbol_Here**rstuartcih.org>
Actually, there's nothing going to help you on this problem. It is not a problem of vinyl chloride burning at incineration temperatures -- which is what your data bases have. This is vinyl chloride burning along with 4 other monomers, assorted other chemicals, food stuffs, and train parts in incomplete combustion conditions. There is just NO way to know what all is in the air, soil, water, and soot.
EPA took their air samples from the village which is about as stupid as you can get. Instead, they needed to have taken large air samples as near as possible and provided mass spec analysis of these samples. Same with soil and water.
EPA is doing the same thing they did at 9/11 and telling you the air is safe without analyzing the dust. The reason 9/11 victims have fared better than most is a LOT of the dust was retained for study. People like Paul Lioy found 108 substances in the dust at projected levels that could be toxic. Others found more. That's the only way you are going to know what people were exposed to.
This is not a simple reaction or a simple problem. Don't we all know that 4000 chemicals have been isolated from cigarette smoke and that's just a plant leaf and a piece of paper? There are things created in this fire we will only know about if we can find them on analysis now.
Monona
-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Stuart <ralph**At_Symbol_Here**RSTUARTCIH.ORG>
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Sent: Tue, Feb 21, 2023 3:43 pm
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] C&EN: Ohio train derailment raises more questions
> >The Case Study no longer seems to be available on the ATSDR website, but there is an extensive Toxicological Profile on the subject with a 2006 date available which should review all the available data up to then.
>
Thanks for this comment. Many (but not all) of the toxicological reviews that EPA sponsored in the 20th Century have been moved to the National Library of Medicine and are available in disaggregated form via PubChem. Your comment led me to conduct some interesting review of the literature available in PubChem and elsewhere from the EPA about vinyl chloride and other chemicals.
For example, the toxicology information about DMF (the chemical I wrote about in the ACS Chemical Health & Safety article that came out this week) showed only 7 references before I was using it in 1984; 71 publications of the toxicology of DMF have come out since then. I didn’t realize that I was working with such a novel chemical in the lab at the time...
> >The EPA IRISA (Integrated Risk Information system) should certainly be consulted. It used to be available on-line from Specialized Information Services at the National Library of Medicine (www.nlm.nih.gov). Not sure it still is.
IRIS information on vinyl chloride is available at
https://iris.epa.gov/ChemicalLanding/&substance_nmbr=1001Its last significant revision was in 2000.
Along a similar vein, a colleague let me know that the Data Liberation Project has received the its FOIA request for EPA risk management data and made some of it is now publicly available via their web site. Documentation is here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jrLXtv0knnACiPXJ1ZRFXR1GaPWCHJWWjin4rsthFbQ/edit The data includes both Risk Management Plans required by EPA as well as a list of about 12,000 hazmat accidents incorporated in the system between 1992 and 2022. The accident log can be found at
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/170UIeg_sweeqGWVQrjHWY-HNRqEPE9axbEroSEr4C3M/edit#gid=1671174990It makes for interesting datra if you are have some to explore risk assessment parameters for processes that emulate industrial settings.
- Ralph
Ralph Stuart, CIH, CCHO
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