DCHAS-L Archives, Mar 27, 2024 - Re: [DCHAS-L] Safety Glasses or Safety Splash-proof Goggles

I'm no longer teaching, but when i was, the first lab of the semester has demonstartions of both the safety shower and the eye wash. That lab ended with an "acid in the eye" demo. No one in the room was wearing eye protection but me. I had found an "acid or base in the eye" demo in literature from Flynn Chemical. I adapted it to my use.

I'd have prepared 4 disposable petrie dishes with a (not very artistic but easily identifiable) eye drawn on the bottom. Since the dish is clear, it can be placed on an old overhead projector, or a new document reader (put a tray with a high lip under it so you don't wreck it). When the time was right I asked "Who wants to volunteer for a demo? All hands go up. "An acid in the eye demo?" All hands but the one out two wise guys or gals go down. I say, I'm only kidding. You aren't dressed for it.

Then ask what am I wearing? They'd mention lab coat, goggles, some would notice my gloves.

I'd tell them I had 4 containers of things they wouldn't want in their eyes and I was going to show them to them and put some in each of these eyes, as i turned on the projector. "Each eye," I'd tell them, "has an egg white in it, because the proteins in egg white are very similar to those in your eyes. So. First we'll add battery acid to one. This is sulfuric acid, at the most concentrated it can be. I want you to count the number of seconds it takes for the eye to look damaged." I'd use an eye dropper to drip one drop into the "pupil" and another into the "iris" and a third into the "eye white" and we'd count, "one, one-thousand, two, one-thousand, three, one-thousand," and then all sorts of startled sounds as the egg white turned opaque. (I'd do the next area after they saw the damage in the first. )

I'd say, "so do you have time to get to the eye wash?" And they'd all look horrified as they realized there was no way they'd make it in time. Then I'd ask, "so, what is it for?" "why have an eye wash if you can't get to it in time?" There'd be a lot of whispering. I'd let it go a few seconds and then say, "would i make it in time?" Universal "yes" "why?" "You have goggles on." "So why do we wear goggles?" "To but it's time."

My lines I scripted, their lines i didn't have to script."

After that, I never had goggles issues, but i did have shoe, shorts, and crew neck shirts issues. When the student who was pushing the limits showed up dressed incorrectly, after warnings at the previous lab meeting and in lecture, id say, "well, you aren't following the clothing guidelines, so you are out of here, zero for today's lab, and you need to talk to your program head and get a note before I let you back in." The face blanches white and the person says "i have clothes in my car, can i go change and come back? If you are back before the pre-lab instructing are done, AND, your partner is willing to explain all the pre-lab instructions to you, okay." Or they can change back at their room or their friends place etc. I never had one not have the proper clothes somewhere near. And never had one not make it back i in time. And, only one per lab per semester ever happened. The rest only had to see the "hard-nosed b***h" stick-it-to-her once. Then they followed the rules.

There were lockers available to students nearby, and id suggest to those who had trouble remembering, that they pick out a locker and stick appropriate attire in it, and many did.

But that demo, and a verbal reminder of the type, this is 2/3 the concentration of that acid we dropped in the eye, so you'd maybe have 5 or 6 seconds, so goggles on and keep them on. We need to buy

that extra time. And they'd wear them.

I learned to be tough as a TA at Michigan State in the early 80's. I had a student in a Gen Chem lab who wouldn't wear his goggles. He had a rather large nose, that showed signs of having been broken at least once, but probably several times (he had played football in HS he told me). So the goggles hurt. And he kept moving them up to his forehead. And one day I caught him holding a bench bottle off conc sulfuric at eye level, pouring into a ten mL cylinder with an opening 4x smaller than the bench bottle opening, with no funnel, no gloves, goggles on the forehead. I calmly told him to put down what was in his hands, and when it was safe, i screamed "Out!! No idiot is going blind on MY WATCH!!. OUT! YOU DON'T COME BACK WITHOUT A NOTE FROM THE PROFESSOR AND THE DEAN!! OUT!!. That's the only time i was ever truly mad at a student. It would have taken only a micro-drop for him to be blinded. And the size of the bottle and of the cylinder virtually guatanteed a spill.

He was back with the two letters the next lab period, and a rather weak apology, but he never took off those goggles inside the lab again. (But he did use Conc. Sulfuric to burn a mole off his hand, and didn't feel it until there was a hole about 1/2 inch in diameter and 1/4 inch in depth in his hand, about shock he said, "i don't know how that could have happened. His partner whispered in my ear, "I watched him put it on there to save himself a clinic bill he said," so I knew where this was coming from.

But after that guy, my students in the Wisconsin Technical College weren't getting away with refusing to wear their PPE.

To the gentlemen who started this thread, those girls can tell you feel uncomfortable enforcing rules with them, maybe because you were raised to be respectful with all women. Some women enjoy taking advantage of such men, when they should be thanking the mothers who raised them, because men like you aren't the rapists, abusers, wife-beaters. But, mom didnt want you to be a push over either. It's very possible to draw that linebinthe sand without losing the politeness mom raised you with. Practice in a mirror. Emphasize the rules are to keep them safe and unscarred. That you respect women too much to let them get hurt in lab because they just don't understand how dangerous this lab stuff is, but you know, and you at determined not yo let them hurt themselves. Then practice with a woman who cares for you and take constructive criticism. Being hard- nosed and polite and respectful at the same time is a learned art. God luck. Once you've got it, nobody will make you feel they are walking all over you again.

Consider me a caring elderly Aunty giving you advice.

Meg Osterby or, if you prefer, Aunt M, as mt former students call me now.

On Thu, Mar 14, 2024, 1:03 PM David EldrEdge <Dave.EldrEdge**At_Symbol_Here**naltic.com> wrote:

What is the consensus chemistry labs, splash-proof goggles or other (non-splash-proof with excellent ventilation)

I taught gen-chem labs at UVU for a few years, where they had a hard and fast rule, just as strong as the expectation that you wouldn't come into the lab without shoes or a shirt. Very high expectations were set for splash-proof, and there was never anyone pushing against donning splash-proof goggles, although fogging up was an issue that we battled for a few.

I started teaching again last semester at a different community college, teaching one nursing-level elementary chemistry lab. I had no issues—everyone wore splash-proof eye protection. I didn't have to say much about it.

This semester, I'm teaching both elementary and a gen-chem II lab. However, I have encountered a challenge: about five young ladies continue to test my will. Despite warnings and even including in the rubric for the past Monday's lab that they would be graded on safety, including the use of PPE, they still resist compliance. Twenty minutes into the lab, after a final warning, they all put their safety goggles on, but only for about 5 minutes before taking them off again.

This situation has left me pondering the best approach to ensure compliance without constantly policing the lab, which detracts from the educational experience for all involved. I'm reaching out to this community for advice and strategies you might have used to encourage consistent use of safety goggles in your labs.

First of all, how important is mandating splash-proof goggles? I'm noticing among other institutions, even educational videos, many are not using splash-proof goggles, e.g. just safety glasses.

Secondly, how do you handle resistance or non-compliance, especially when it comes to something as critical as eye protection? Are there any particular methods, consequences, or educational strategies you've found effective in instilling the importance of these safety practices in your students?

Additionally, if splash-proof goggles are really that much more important than just safety glasses, any suggestions for dealing with the fogging issue in a way that doesn't compromise safety but might make students more inclined to keep their goggles on, I would greatly appreciate hearing those as well. (Anti-fog spray helps somewhat)

What is the level of liability risk for me and the school if students continue to not protect themselves? Is docking points off of their lab evidence enough that they have been put on notice as they continue to refuse to comply? They are adults, barely! Do they have a choice? Taking 10-20% off of their total lab might be something they are willing to accept in place of safety. IDK.

Thank you in advance for your insights and advice. The safety of our students is paramount, and as well as protection from potential liability.

Warm regards,

David EldrEdge
Co-Owner
NALTIC Industrials, LLC
www.naltic.com
888.891.0077
435.503.4972

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