DCHAS-L Archives, Mar 30, 2024 - [DCHAS-L] Fwd: Fire extinguisher training

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Jeff Rubin <jnrubin**At_Symbol_Here**aya.yale.edu>
Date: Sat, Mar 30, 2024, 3:06 AM
Subject: Re: Fire extinguisher training
To: <LABSAFETY-L**At_Symbol_Here**listserv.siu.edu>

I agree with Jim and would extend it to any critical safety equipment or procedure: we train people in CPR, AED, and 1^st aid so they’re not trying to figure it out when they’re under maximum pressure – ditto eyewash, showers, emergency shutdown, evacuation, etc. I’d argue, with a fair bit of experience, that someone with no extinguisher training is more likely to put themselves in danger (and/or delay notification) than someone who has had training, in part because an essential component to extinguisher training is to ensure an alarm is issued, when to fight (incipient, still small), when not to (extended beyond origin), and always to stay between an exit and the fire, i.e., never allow yourself to have the fire between you and the way out. Online orientation is fine as a baseline but hands-on (which many institutional EHS offices and local FDs provide) is really important. It’s useful for people to see how an initial burst will briefly boost the fire via the air ahead of the initial discharge, as well as general ease of use.

I understand the concerns; extinguisher use is rare and typically is not a life-safety action, but as with many uncommon procedures, when you need it, you need it. Code requires the equipment, so I’d say better not to take the “don’t touch” approach. I’d argue strongly against, say, mass-casualty triage for most folks (one of many reasons I’ve never been a CERT fan, but that’s a different rabbit hole) but would aggressively promote Stop The Bleed or similar training even to those with no other FA exposure. If we trust people with hazardous materials, expensive equipment, and procedures more complex than most emergency actions we should be able to trust them with extinguishers.

My $0.02,

JNR

____________________________

Jeff Rubin, PhD, NREMT (he/him)

-----Original Message-----
From: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L**At_Symbol_Here**LISTSERV.SIU.EDU> On Behalf Of LABSAFETY-L automatic digest system
Sent: Fri, Mar 29, 2024 10:01 PM
To: LABSAFETY-L**At_Symbol_Here**LISTSERV.SIU.EDU
Subject: LABSAFETY-L Digest - 27 Mar 2024 to 29 Mar 2024 (#2024-20)

There are 6 messages totaling 4077 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. Fwd: [DCHAS-L] Fire extinguisher training

2. [DCHAS-L] Fire extinguisher training (5)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 11:42:33 -0400

From: James Kaufman <jkaufman**At_Symbol_Here**LABSAFETYINSTITUTE.ORG>

Subject: Fwd: [DCHAS-L] Fire extinguisher training

---------- Forwarded message ---------

From: James Kaufman <jkaufman**At_Symbol_Here**labsafetyinstitute.org>

Date: Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 11:40 AM

Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Fire extinguisher training

To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**princeton.edu>

My concern is the one time you must use the extinguisher. You are trapped and the only way out is to get past the fire. This is no time to learn how to use a fire extinguisher ... Jim

PS. LSI now has virtual lab inspections, safety program evaluations, document reviews, plus courses and seminars ... all virtual. And, a complimentary, updated version of our classic Laboratory Safety Guidelines is now available on our website ...

https://www.labsafety.org/product/lab-safety-rules

*James A. Kaufman, PhD*

Founder/President Emeritus

*The Laboratory Safety Institute (LSI)*

A Non-profit Educational Organization

for Safety in Science, Industry, and Education

192 Worcester Street, Natick, MA 01760-2252

(O) 508-647-1900 (F) 508-647-0062 (C) 508-574-6264

Skype: labsafe; 508-401-7406 jkaufman**At_Symbol_Here**labsafety.org www.labsafety.org

*Teach, Learn, and Practice Science Safely*

On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 11:34 AM Benjamin Ruekberg <bruekberg**At_Symbol_Here**uri.edu>

wrote:

> Thank you Dr. Rechtin. You have made a point that strengthens my

> position, in that what you said can be paraphrased as the old saying

> "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing." Indeed, an insufficiently

> trained student could endanger themself by trying to extinguish a

> fire. The other feature of an extensive training would be that fires

> can sneak around behind you or block your exit or suddenly get more

> intense. This is why I suggest that in-case-of-fire training should

> be limited shutting down experiments (conditions permitting) and get

> out of the building (presumably to a prearranged assembly area where

> the instructor can make sure everyone got out).

> Thank you very much,

> Ben

> On Wed, Mar 27, 2024 at 4:17 PM Tammy M. Lutz-Rechtin

> <tlutzrec**At_Symbol_Here**uark.edu>

> wrote:

>> What the student thinks constitutes fire extinguisher training, may

>> not be what I think it means. For instance, taking an online fire

>> safety training that teaches the basics of PASS is very different

>> than having hands on experience or intensive or specific training for

>> the worksite or lab. I suspect most students are referring to taking a module online.

>> Regards,

>> Tammy Rechtin

>> Get Outlook for iOS

>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_o0ukef&d

>> =DwMGaQ&c=dWz0sRZOjEnYSN4E4J0dug&r=zI15ZRCThp9VYQU-DZ2FR-LVQUxBn0F2mS

>> _sU5u2DpU&m=AmI0oEMZ9LqfofuA4tj2aqlq1va4Olq7et6lGlg4rMr87cCoT7REUeCc1

>> GW49PIB&s=P19vPUCE5IEPE16l6uIp6Ej5xa9wqIj9vzrnVQEVSwg&e=>

>> ------------------------------

>> *From:* ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety

>> <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU> on behalf of Jeffrey Lewin <jclewin**At_Symbol_Here**MTU.EDU>

>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 27, 2024 10:35:32 AM

>> *To:* DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU>

>> *Subject:* Re: [DCHAS-L] Fire extinguisher training

>> Note, there is a typo in the citation:

>> DOI:10.1021/acs.jchemed.3c01299 (no "0" at the end).

>> It might also be useful to look at where the data came from:

>> Supporting information

>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__pubs.acs.org_do

>> i_suppl_10.1021_acs.jchemed.3c01299_suppl-5Ffile_ed3c01299-5Fsi-5F001

>> .pdf&d=DwMGaQ&c=dWz0sRZOjEnYSN4E4J0dug&r=zI15ZRCThp9VYQU-DZ2FR-LVQUxB

>> n0F2mS_sU5u2DpU&m=AmI0oEMZ9LqfofuA4tj2aqlq1va4Olq7et6lGlg4rMr87cCoT7REUeCc1GW49PIB&s=PHq9GwiAYU2Op5e323EWYah60RricYdP_THKjNOS3kc&e=> The survey appears to be of graduate students on safety training they received as an undergraduate, including their experience as an undergraduate researcher.

>> Of the 41% that received fire extinguisher training, only 13 percent

>> actually discharged a fire extinguisher.

>> Personally, I would not oppose fire extinguisher training for anyone,

>> but as Ben points out, in an undergraduate teaching laboratory the

>> emphasis should be on safely evacuating the lab and how to notify emergency services.

>> The article has lots of other interesting tidbits on safety

>> experience as undergraduates - using SDSs, using PubChem, introduction to RAMP, etc.

>> Jeff

>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2024 at 11:03 AM Benjamin Ruekberg

>> <bruekberg**At_Symbol_Here**uri.edu>

>> wrote:

>> Hello,

>> I was wondering how the group members feel about fire extinguisher

>> training as a part of safety training in undergraduate laboratory courses.

>> A recent article in *Journal of Chemical Education

>> *(DOI:10.1021/acs.jchemed.3c012990)

>> indicated that approximately 45% of undergraduates were given fire

>> extinguisher training as part of their chemistry laboratory safety training.

>> While this is useful knowledge in general, it does not seem relevant

>> to undergraduate chemical safety training. In case of a fire,

>> students should not attempt to put out the fire, but rather turn off

>> electricity and gas for their experiments (conditions permitting),

>> pull the fire alarm, and evacuate the building. It might well be

>> argued that training in the use of fire extinguishers could be

>> interpreted by some students as encouragement to use a fire

>> extinguisher to fight a laboratory fire--constituting a training in unsafe behavior.

>> Thus, it would seem that the time spent in fire extinguisher training

>> would be much better spent on important safety issues.

>> That is just my opinion regarding only undergraduate courses, not

>> necessarily undergraduate or graduate research. Am I missing

>> something or do CHAS members agree?

>> Thank you very much,

>> Ben

>> --- For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the

>> Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org

>> --

>> Jeff Lewin

>> Director of Chemical Laboratory Operations Research Integrity Office

>> Laboratory Operations

>> 205 Lakeshore Center

>> Michigan Technological University

>> --- For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the

>> Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org

>> --- For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the

>> Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org

> --- For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the

> Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 15:57:15 +0000

From: "Gregory, Elizabeth (egregory)" <egregory**At_Symbol_Here**BROCKPORT.EDU>

Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Fire extinguisher training

Two other considerations:

1. Proper lab design should ensure that you are never in that situation to begin with by providing appropriately positioned exits.

2. No one should ever be working alone. No undergraduate student should ever be placed into a position by the department where they may become trapped without someone there to help.

3. Even though I just said all that – if you have the resources to teach someone how to safely use a fire extinguisher, and in that training you make it extremely clear what the expectations are of your students during an actual event, then I think it’s a great thing to teach them.

FYI, what I used to tell my chemistry lab students was that they were not to use a fire extinguisher unless they have previously had live training unless it was literally their life on the line, reviewed PASS, and then reiterated again that unless it was THEIR own life on the line, they are to shut down their experiment and exit the room and leave it to me to attempt using the extinguisher.

Elizabeth Gregory

Assistant Director, Environmental Health and Safety SUNY Brockport

350 New Campus Dr

Brockport, NY 14420

(585) 395-2005

From: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L**At_Symbol_Here**LISTSERV.SIU.EDU> On Behalf Of James Kaufman

Sent: Friday, March 29, 2024 11:43 AM

To: LABSAFETY-L**At_Symbol_Here**LISTSERV.SIU.EDU

Subject: Fwd: [DCHAS-L] Fire extinguisher training

Warning: Message from non-Brockport Email Server. Treat message, links, and attachments with extra care.

---------- Forwarded message ---------

From: James Kaufman <jkaufman**At_Symbol_Here**labsafetyinstitute.org<mailto:jkaufman**At_Symbol_Here**labsafetyinstitute.org>>

Date: Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 11:40 AM

Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Fire extinguisher training

To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**princeton.edu<mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**princeton.edu>>

My concern is the one time you must use the extinguisher. You are trapped and the only way out is to get past the fire. This is no time to learn how to use a fire extinguisher ... Jim

James A. Kaufman, PhD

Founder/President Emeritus

The Laboratory Safety Institute (LSI)

A Non-profit Educational Organization

for Safety in Science, Industry, and Education

192 Worcester Street, Natick, MA 01760-2252

(O) 508-647-1900 (F) 508-647-0062 (C) 508-574-6264

Skype: labsafe; 508-401-7406 jkaufman**At_Symbol_Here**labsafety.org<mailto:jkaufman**At_Symbol_Here**labsafety.org> www.labsafety.org<http://www.labsafety.org/>

Teach, Learn, and Practice Science Safely

On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 11:34 AM Benjamin Ruekberg <bruekberg**At_Symbol_Here**uri.edu<mailto:bruekberg**At_Symbol_Here**uri.edu>> wrote:

Thank you Dr. Rechtin. You have made a point that strengthens my position, in that what you said can be paraphrased as the old saying "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing." Indeed, an insufficiently trained student could endanger themself by trying to extinguish a fire. The other feature of an extensive training would be that fires can sneak around behind you or block your exit or suddenly get more intense. This is why I suggest that in-case-of-fire training should be limited shutting down experiments (conditions permitting) and get out of the building (presumably to a prearranged assembly area where the instructor can make sure everyone got out).

Thank you very much,

Ben

On Wed, Mar 27, 2024 at 4:17 PM Tammy M. Lutz-Rechtin <tlutzrec**At_Symbol_Here**uark.edu<mailto:tlutzrec**At_Symbol_Here**uark.edu>> wrote:

What the student thinks constitutes fire extinguisher training, may not be what I think it means. For instance, taking an online fire safety training that teaches the basics of PASS is very different than having hands on experience or intensive or specific training for the worksite or lab. I suspect most students are referring to taking a module online.

Regards,

Tammy Rechtin

Get Outlook for iOS<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_o0ukef&d=DwMGaQ&c=dWz0sRZOjEnYSN4E4J0dug&r=zI15ZRCThp9VYQU-DZ2FR-LVQUxBn0F2mS_sU5u2DpU&m=AmI0oEMZ9LqfofuA4tj2aqlq1va4Olq7et6lGlg4rMr87cCoT7REUeCc1GW49PIB&s=P19vPUCE5IEPE16l6uIp6Ej5xa9wqIj9vzrnVQEVSwg&e=>

________________________________

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU<mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU>> on behalf of Jeffrey Lewin <jclewin**At_Symbol_Here**MTU.EDU<mailto:jclewin**At_Symbol_Here**MTU.EDU>>

Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2024 10:35:32 AM

To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU<mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU> <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU<mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU>>

Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Fire extinguisher training

Note, there is a typo in the citation: DOI:10.1021/acs.jchemed.3c01299 (no "0" at the end).

It might also be useful to look at where the data came from: Supporting information<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__pubs.acs.org_doi_suppl_10.1021_acs.jchemed.3c01299_suppl-5Ffile_ed3c01299-5Fsi-5F001.pdf&d=DwMGaQ&c=dWz0sRZOjEnYSN4E4J0dug&r=zI15ZRCThp9VYQU-DZ2FR-LVQUxBn0F2mS_sU5u2DpU&m=AmI0oEMZ9LqfofuA4tj2aqlq1va4Olq7et6lGlg4rMr87cCoT7REUeCc1GW49PIB&s=PHq9GwiAYU2Op5e323EWYah60RricYdP_THKjNOS3kc&e=> The survey appears to be of graduate students on safety training they received as an undergraduate, including their experience as an undergraduate researcher.

Of the 41% that received fire extinguisher training, only 13 percent actually discharged a fire extinguisher.

Personally, I would not oppose fire extinguisher training for anyone, but as Ben points out, in an undergraduate teaching laboratory the emphasis should be on safely evacuating the lab and how to notify emergency services.

The article has lots of other interesting tidbits on safety experience as undergraduates - using SDSs, using PubChem, introduction to RAMP, etc.

Jeff

On Wed, Mar 27, 2024 at 11:03 AM Benjamin Ruekberg <bruekberg**At_Symbol_Here**uri.edu<mailto:bruekberg**At_Symbol_Here**uri.edu>> wrote:

Hello,

I was wondering how the group members feel about fire extinguisher training as a part of safety training in undergraduate laboratory courses.

A recent article in Journal of Chemical Education (DOI:10.1021/acs.jchemed.3c012990) indicated that approximately 45% of undergraduates were given fire extinguisher training as part of their chemistry laboratory safety training.

While this is useful knowledge in general, it does not seem relevant to undergraduate chemical safety training. In case of a fire, students should not attempt to put out the fire, but rather turn off electricity and gas for their experiments (conditions permitting), pull the fire alarm, and evacuate the building. It might well be argued that training in the use of fire extinguishers could be interpreted by some students as encouragement to use a fire extinguisher to fight a laboratory fire--constituting a training in unsafe behavior.

Thus, it would seem that the time spent in fire extinguisher training would be much better spent on important safety issues.

That is just my opinion regarding only undergraduate courses, not necessarily undergraduate or graduate research. Am I missing something or do CHAS members agree?

Thank you very much,

Ben

--- For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org<mailto:membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org>

Jeff Lewin

Director of Chemical Laboratory Operations Research Integrity Office Laboratory Operations

205 Lakeshore Center

Michigan Technological University

--- For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org<mailto:membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 12:04:59 -0400

From: Richard Palluzi <rpalluzi**At_Symbol_Here**VERIZON.NET>

Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Fire extinguisher training

If you are in that situation then the designer of the laboratory made a terrible error and never provided ascend way out or placed the casework in a manner not allowed by NFPA 45. Even with fire extinguisher training, a real fire can, too easily, get away from a poorly trained person and create a needless hazard. My answer is similar to one give before. Get out shutting down anything you can safely shut off on your way out and wait for the fire department or trained responders.

Richard Palluzi

BE(ChE), ME(ChE), PE, CSP,FAIChE

Pilot plant and laboratory consulting, safety, design, reviews, and training

<http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardppalluzillc/> www.linkedin.com/in/richardppalluzillc/

<http://www.pilotplants.us/> www.pilotplants.us

Richard P Palluzi LLC

72 Summit Drive

Basking Ridge, NJ 07920

rpalluzi**At_Symbol_Here**verizon.net

908-285-3782

From: LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L**At_Symbol_Here**LISTSERV.SIU.EDU> On Behalf Of James Kaufman

Sent: Friday, March 29, 2024 11:43 AM

To: LABSAFETY-L**At_Symbol_Here**LISTSERV.SIU.EDU

Subject: Fwd: [DCHAS-L] Fire extinguisher training

---------- Forwarded message ---------

From: James Kaufman <jkaufman**At_Symbol_Here**labsafetyinstitute.org <mailto:jkaufman**At_Symbol_Here**labsafetyinstitute.org> >

Date: Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 11:40 AM

Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Fire extinguisher training

To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**princeton.edu <mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**princeton.edu> >

My concern is the one time you must use the extinguisher. You are trapped and the only way out is to get past the fire. This is no time to learn how to use a fire extinguisher ... Jim

James A. Kaufman, PhD

Founder/President Emeritus

The Laboratory Safety Institute (LSI)

A Non-profit Educational Organization

for Safety in Science, Industry, and Education

192 Worcester Street, Natick, MA 01760-2252

(O) 508-647-1900 (F) 508-647-0062 (C) 508-574-6264

Skype: labsafe; 508-401-7406 <mailto:jkaufman**At_Symbol_Here**labsafety.org> jkaufman**At_Symbol_Here**labsafety.org <http://www.labsafety.org/> www.labsafety.org

Teach, Learn, and Practice Science Safely

On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 11:34 AM Benjamin Ruekberg <bruekberg**At_Symbol_Here**uri.edu <mailto:bruekberg**At_Symbol_Here**uri.edu> > wrote:

Thank you very much,

Ben

On Wed, Mar 27, 2024 at 4:17 PM Tammy M. Lutz-Rechtin <tlutzrec**At_Symbol_Here**uark.edu <mailto:tlutzrec**At_Symbol_Here**uark.edu> > wrote:

Regards,

Tammy Rechtin

Get Outlook for iOS <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_o0ukef&d=DwMGaQ&c=dWz0sRZOjEnYSN4E4J0dug&r=zI15ZRCThp9VYQU-DZ2FR-LVQUxBn0F2mS_sU5u2DpU&m=AmI0oEMZ9LqfofuA4tj2aqlq1va4Olq7et6lGlg4rMr87cCoT7REUeCc1GW49PIB&s=P19vPUCE5IEPE16l6uIp6Ej5xa9wqIj9vzrnVQEVSwg&e=>

_____

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU <mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU> > on behalf of Jeffrey Lewin <jclewin**At_Symbol_Here**MTU.EDU <mailto:jclewin**At_Symbol_Here**MTU.EDU> >

Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2024 10:35:32 AM

To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU <mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU> <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU <mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU> >

Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Fire extinguisher training

Note, there is a typo in the citation: DOI:10.1021/acs.jchemed.3c01299 (no "0" at the end).

It might also be useful to look at where the data came from: Supporting <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__pubs.acs.org_doi_suppl_10.1021_acs.jchemed.3c01299_suppl-5Ffile_ed3c01299-5Fsi-5F001.pdf&d=DwMGaQ&c=dWz0sRZOjEnYSN4E4J0dug&r=zI15ZRCThp9VYQU-DZ2FR-LVQUxBn0F2mS_sU5u2DpU&m=AmI0oEMZ9LqfofuA4tj2aqlq1va4Olq7et6lGlg4rMr87cCoT7REUeCc1GW49PIB&s=PHq9GwiAYU2Op5e323EWYah60RricYdP_THKjNOS3kc&e=> information The survey appears to be of graduate students on safety training they received as an undergraduate, including their experience as an undergraduate researcher.

Of the 41% that received fire extinguisher training, only 13 percent actually discharged a fire extinguisher.

The article has lots of other interesting tidbits on safety experience as undergraduates - using SDSs, using PubChem, introduction to RAMP, etc.

Jeff

On Wed, Mar 27, 2024 at 11:03 AM Benjamin Ruekberg <bruekberg**At_Symbol_Here**uri.edu <mailto:bruekberg**At_Symbol_Here**uri.edu> > wrote:

Hello,

I was wondering how the group members feel about fire extinguisher training as a part of safety training in undergraduate laboratory courses.

Thus, it would seem that the time spent in fire extinguisher training would be much better spent on important safety issues.

That is just my opinion regarding only undergraduate courses, not necessarily undergraduate or graduate research. Am I missing something or do CHAS members agree?

Thank you very much,

Ben

--- For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org <mailto:membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org>

Jeff Lewin

Director of Chemical Laboratory Operations

Research Integrity Office

Laboratory Operations

205 Lakeshore Center

Michigan Technological University

--- For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org <mailto:membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2024 13:11:16 -0400

From: James Kaufman <jkaufman**At_Symbol_Here**LABSAFETYINSTITUTE.ORG>

Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Fire extinguisher training

What about in your home? ... Jim

https://www.labsafety.org/product/lab-safety-rules

*James A. Kaufman, PhD*

Founder/President Emeritus

*The Laboratory Safety Institute (LSI)*

A Non-profit Educational Organization

for Safety in Science, Industry, and Education

192 Worcester Street, Natick, MA 01760-2252

(O) 508-647-1900 (F) 508-647-0062 (C) 508-574-6264

Skype: labsafe; 508-401-7406 jkaufman**At_Symbol_Here**labsafety.org www.labsafety.org

*Teach, Learn, and Practice Science Safely*

On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 12:06 PM Richard Palluzi < 0000041636217548-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**listserv.siu.edu> wrote:

> If you are in that situation then the designer of the laboratory made

> a terrible error and never provided ascend way out or placed the

> casework in a manner not allowed by NFPA 45. Even with fire

> extinguisher training, a real fire can, too easily, get away from a

> poorly trained person and create a needless hazard. My answer is

> similar to one give before. Get out shutting down anything you can

> safely shut off on your way out and wait for the fire department or trained responders.

> Richard Palluzi

> BE(ChE), ME(ChE), PE, CSP,FAIChE

> *Pilot plant and laboratory consulting, safety, design, reviews, and

> training*

> www.linkedin.com/in/richardppalluzillc/

> www.pilotplants.us

> Richard P Palluzi LLC

> 72 Summit Drive

> Basking Ridge, NJ 07920

> rpalluzi**At_Symbol_Here**verizon.net

> 908-285-3782

> *From:* LABSAFETY-L Discussion List <LABSAFETY-L**At_Symbol_Here**LISTSERV.SIU.EDU> *On

> Behalf Of *James Kaufman

> *Sent:* Friday, March 29, 2024 11:43 AM

> *To:* LABSAFETY-L**At_Symbol_Here**LISTSERV.SIU.EDU

> *Subject:* Fwd: [DCHAS-L] Fire extinguisher training

> ---------- Forwarded message ---------

> From: *James Kaufman* <jkaufman**At_Symbol_Here**labsafetyinstitute.org>

> Date: Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 11:40 AM

> Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Fire extinguisher training

> To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**princeton.edu>

> My concern is the one time you must use the extinguisher. You are

> trapped and the only way out is to get past the fire. This is no time

> to learn how to use a fire extinguisher ... Jim

> PS. LSI now has virtual lab inspections, safety program evaluations,

> document reviews, plus courses and seminars ... all virtual. And, a

> complimentary, updated version of our classic Laboratory Safety

> Guidelines is now available on our website ...

> https://www.labsafety.org/product/lab-safety-rules

> *James A. Kaufman, PhD*

> Founder/President Emeritus

> *The Laboratory Safety Institute (LSI)*

> A Non-profit Educational Organization

> for Safety in Science, Industry, and Education

> 192 Worcester Street, Natick, MA 01760-2252

> (O) 508-647-1900 (F) 508-647-0062 (C) 508-574-6264

> Skype: labsafe; 508-401-7406 jkaufman**At_Symbol_Here**labsafety.org

> www.labsafety.org

> *Teach, Learn, and Practice Science Safely*

> On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 11:34 AM Benjamin Ruekberg <bruekberg**At_Symbol_Here**uri.edu>