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From: Monona Rossol <0000030664c37427-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**LISTS.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Undergraduate Student Respirator Use?...
Date: Aug 28, 2024 22:36 UTC
Reply-To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU>
Message-ID: <701020760.624824.1724884598462**At_Symbol_Here**mail.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAAszpkx+i6Kf4iDZbYytSqa+WqfgERWtFsmd_q1Z8sJ3JKL1=A**At_Symbol_Here**mail.gmail.com>
--- For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.orgI can attest to that. Both my husband and I tested positive yesterday from one visit 5 days prior from a relative without a mask who never sneezed once. I'm 88 and really sick with all the usual symptoms, and Jack, at 97, is asymptomatic except for borderline low blood oxygen. So we're watching him carefully for hospitalization again. We got our booster August 2, so we re at maximum resistance, a lucky break. He almost didn't make it last time (hospitalized Jan 13-April 1, 2021) followed by a year+ on oxygen so we are concerned.MononaOn Wednesday, August 28, 2024 at 10:56:23 AM EDT, Chris Jakober <cjakober**At_Symbol_Here**ucanr.edu> wrote:Thanks, David, for addressing the huge need for better understanding of aerosol science and the importance of ventilation!
Those (potentially infectious) respiratory aerosols are coming from lots of human activities, including simple speech. Not just coughs and sneezes.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-38808-z
Any added ventilation, in addition to reducing aerosol concentrations, also lowers CO2 levels making the air mass (and aerosols) less hospitable to SARS-CoV-2.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-47777-5
Lastly, let's not forget the additional benefits on cognitive performance from the lowered CO2 environments.
Cheers,
Chris
Chris Jakober, Ph.D. (he/him)
Director - Risk and Safety Services
UC Agriculture and Natural Resources
2801 Second St.
Davis, CA 95618-7774
Phone: (530) 756-1046 ext. 1788
Cell: (530) 980-1816
"Do the Right thing for the Right Reasons at the Right time with the Right people. [And] you will have no Regrets for the Rest of your life." - Allan McDonald's '7Rs'
From: David EldrEdge <Dave.EldrEdge**At_Symbol_Here**NALTIC.COM>
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2024 7:36 AM
Subject: Re: Undergraduate Student Respirator Use?...
Hi Jim,
I agree with most of what you say here.
There is a whole big piece missing. It is aerosol science.
Prof. Donald K. Milton, MD, UMD School of Public Health has been my mentor since Jan 2018 when I landed on his most monumental publication.
Simple tidal breathing generated infectious aerosols, thus the importance of really good ventilation.
A few short clips of/from Don Milton:
Bottom line, inhalation of infectious aerosols and viral load is huge!
Warm regards,
David EldrEdge
Co-Owner
NALTIC Industrials, LLC
888.891.0077
435.503.4972
On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 8:17 AM James Keating <james.k.keating**At_Symbol_Here**gmail.com> wrote:
An N95 "Respirator" is not considered a respirator but rather is a nuisance mask when attached with elastic bands surrounding the ears. However, it is a considered Respirator when secured to the head with TWO elastic bands attached to the head - not the ears. When worn as a Respirator it needs to be worn in accordance with regulations specified in 29CFR1910.134.
Worn as a nuisance mask secured by elastic bands secured to the ears it can still be very effective when the wearer is CLEAN SHAVEN. If the wearer has a beard it is worse than a joke and is in no way effective. During the Covid "crisis" I witnessed people wearing all manner of masks with full "ZZ TOP" or "Santa Clauss" beards with the blessing of employers.
I am a board certified (BCSP) associate safety professional and a respiratory protection subjective matter expert for 30 years. The practices approved during the Covid crisis were largely ineffective and led people to believe they were protected when they were not.
BTW, the surgeons masks that were all the rage were offered virtually no protection.
Dr. Fauci himself declared them nothing more than a placebo, at least he did before he was pressured by non medical actors to say otherwise. Dr. Fauci should have stood his ground regarding cloth self made and paper surgeons masks instead of bowing to political pressure. If he did he would have saved his reputation.
The Covid 19 organism is typically encapsulated by water droplets and when we sneeze, if we are wearing a paper surgeons mask or home made cloth mask those droplets tend to be broken up. If we sneeze into one of the ineffective nuisance masks and the organisms which themselves are about 100 nanometers in size) are released and suspended in the air for a very long time rather than quickly falling to the ground when they were encapsulated in water droplets. Moreover, when we sneeze the nuisance mask moves forward and the now released 100 nanometer size organisms merely blow by the mask and are resuspended in the air for hours thereby increasing the risk of infection to anyone passing by whether they are wearing an ineffective nuisance mask or nothing.
The most effective methods to reduce the risk of infection was distancing and cleaning/disinfecting hands frequently as the most common transmission of communicable viruses is contact of the eyes with contaminated hands/finders when we touch our eyes - hundreds if not thousands of times per day.
In the long run, almost all of the Covid fatalities were age related and/or the result of contracting Hospital Acquired Bacterial Pneumonia as a result of several pre existing medical morbidities exacerbated by the reduced immune system response brought on by the Covid viral infection.
Jim Keating
On Fri, Aug 23, 2024 at 8:14 AM Monona Rossol <0000030664c37427-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**lists.princeton.edu> wrote:
Lucy, Don't be to hard on people for not fit testing during the pandemic. It was hard to get all the services needed and a women named Lisa Brosseau and her colleagues did a study that showed that naive users who were not fit tested or trained could still get a higher protection factor wearing N95s than surgical or other types of masks. Yes, it is best to do this right, but even wrong, intelligent people can get pretty good protection with N95s. (PS., not the KN95s with the ear loops, but the straps.)
Monona
On Thursday, August 22, 2024 at 06:33:01 PM EDT, Lucy Dillman <00001de1f67f125c-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**lists.princeton.edu> wrote:
Where I worked, when I still worked, in order to wear a respirator, including N-95, we had to be fit tested for it. I don't know how many students and staff you have who need a respirator, but that could add up to a rather large task. One size doesn't fit all, and I found it very interesting during the Covid years that we kept being told to wear an N-95.
Lucy Dillman
On Thu, Aug 22, 2024 at 11:30 AM Monona Rossol <0000030664c37427-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**lists.princeton.edu> wrote:
Right on, James, Monona
On Thursday, August 22, 2024 at 11:37:18 AM EDT, James Saccardo <james.saccardo**At_Symbol_Here**csi.cuny.edu> wrote:
You not going to find anything addressing students because labor laws only cover employees, but yes, they should be afforded the same protection as employees. Sound like the program lacks good safety culture.
As for defaulting to PPE, remember engineering and administrative control should be used first, PPE is a last line of defense. A respiration protection plan can be complicated and a good deal of work (time and money) that it might be more cost effective in the long run to upgrade the ventilation.
If the hazard can be mitigated with admin and engineering controls, it should. The VOC in the spray paint will be most difficult N95's won't work, you will have to do monitoring, use carbon absorption cartridges, and not rely on breakthrough for change outs.
Perhaps if they do not have the proper engineering controls, they should not be doing this work.
Just my $0.02
James
From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU> on behalf of Nora Dunkel <noradunkel51**At_Symbol_Here**WEBSTER.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2024 1:02 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU>
Subject: [DCHAS-L] Undergraduate Student Respirator Use?
* This email originates from a sender outside of CUNY. Verify the sender before replying or clicking on links and attachments. *
Is anyone aware of a university whose respiratory protection plan specifically includes students? My employer (a small, liberal arts university with a highly active theater department) has a lot of student shops, where ventilation is inadequate or whose dust collectors can’t keep up. There’s also a lot of spray paint use. I’m working to develop a respiratory protection plan that addresses the need for student respirator use (N95’s, mainly). I’ve received pushback from a few deans, asking for evidence that other universities require their students to wear respirators in theater/fine arts/communications contexts, particularly in wood shops.
I’ve found a few institutions where the RPP explicitly permits students to *voluntarily* wear a respirator, but are there any that have rules governing *required* student use of respirators in the face of actual hazardous air contaminants? These are situations where an employee would absolutely be required to wear an N95 or P100. It seems like best practice would be to have students follow the same rules for wearing respirators as employees, if they’re doing the same tasks in the same atmosphere…but I can’t seem to find anything that explicitly addresses this issue.
The administration is unwilling to move forward and approve student respirator use without evidence that other schools do it too. Asking the students to leave the shop and have W2 employees take over when the wood dust levels get too high is both impractical and rude to the students, who are supposed to be learning by doing. Long term, the answer would be to improve ventilation, etc., but that’s not in the cards financially at this point.
Any suggestions are appreciated.
Thanks for your time!
Nora Dunkel, CHMM
Chemical Safety Officer
Webster University
Office: Browning Hall/ISB 314
314-246-2244 (desk)
noradunkel51**At_Symbol_Here**webster.edu
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