BTW

Fun fact: Hydrogen peroxide reacts immediately with aqueous sodium
hypochlorite to give O2 + water + NaCl.

Cheers!
Dave Lane
CSO Zyviva Labs

On 3/28/25 1:21 PM, Monona Rossol wrote:
> James,  That sounds very clear to me.  I hope it does to the conservator
> as well.  I'll forward this to her with some of the other comments as
> well.  Many thanks for the help.  I owe you one.
>
> Monona
>
>
> On Friday, March 28, 2025 at 10:40:12 AM EDT, James Saccardo
> <james.saccardo**At_Symbol_Here**csi.cuny.edu> wrote:
>
>
> I had a historical and comparative methods course in photography that
> used diethyl ether once upon a time.
>
> Ethyl ether, diethyl ether - same thing (Et2O) is a class 1a flammable
> (low boiling and low flash) and when discarded is a hazardous waste (
> EPA codes D001, F003). The lead will also be contained in the waste and
> it will have a D008 hazardous waste code.
>
> 20% (I'm assuming) H2O2 in Et2O is probably stable in an organic
> solvent, but be careful not to contaminate it with any oxidizable
> material (bleach, ammonia, acids) as you are likely to get some kind of
> reaction. Eventually the peroxide will decompose with time and the
> solution will be H2O and Et2O - and the inorganic lead compounds.
>
> Storing ethyl ether you should use the vented cabinet, as it is hard to
> keep this genie the bottle. Vapors escape any closure and you will smell
> it if not adequately ventilated. Can also reach flammable limits of not
> stored properly. It's probably used due to its quick evaporation rate.
> You can try other solvents with a low vapor pressure.
>
> Do not use the non-ducted fume hood, you will overload and carbon
> absorbers and you'll have ether vapors in the studio.
>
> I would also not try to react away the peroxide, this can cause an
> unfavorable reaction if you don't understand what is happening and can
> be considered illegal treatment of hazardous waste depending. Let your
> transporter and end facility handle that, ask them.
>
> Also, you say you have fire protection equipment, be sure it is in good
> working order and certified at certain intervals. Having it and
> maintaining it so it will work when needed are two different things.
>
> I hope I have gave you some insight and pointed you in the right direction.
>
> James
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
> <mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU>> On Behalf Of davivid
> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2025 3:04 PM
> To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU <mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU>
> Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] FW: Inquiry from an art conservator
>
> * This email originates from a sender outside of CUNY. Verify the sender
> before replying or clicking on links and attachments. *
>
> Do you have a reference for the procedure? I'd love to know how to
> convert a carbonate into a sulfate using hydrogen peroxide.
>
> As for the peroxide/ether solution I would kill the peroxide with
> aqueous sodium bisulfite or thiosulfate. As an alternative to ethereal
> hydrogen peroxide there are organic hydroperoxides such as t-butyl
> hydroperoxide but I'm not sure that would be any safer.
>
> Thank you
> Dave Lane
>
> CSO Zyviva Labs
>
> On 3/27/25 10:34 AM, Membership Chair wrote:
> > *From:*Monona Rossol <actsnyc**At_Symbol_Here**cs.com <mailto:actsnyc**At_Symbol_Here**cs.com>>
> > *Sent:* Thursday, March 27, 2025 4:57 AM
> > *To:* Ralph Stuart <membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org <mailto:membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org>>
> > *Subject:* Inquiry from an art conservator
> >
> > All y’all on the DCHAS list
> >
> > An art conservator contacted us with a question that is beyond us.
> > And there are so many on this forum endowed with wisdom on peroxide
> > formation and disposal rules that I thought this would be the best
> > place to post.  You can answer this email for the edification of all
> > (preferred method) or contact me personally at actsnyc**At_Symbol_Here**cs.com
> <mailto:actsnyc**At_Symbol_Here**cs.com>
> > <mailto:actsnyc**At_Symbol_Here**cs.com> and I’ll put you in touch with the conservator.
> >
> > I look forward to your help.
> >
> > Monona Rossol, President
> > Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety
> > New York NY 10012
> >
> > THE INQUIRY:  Thank you both for getting back to me so quickly! If you
> > wouldn't mind, posting on the forum would be much appreciated. Here is
> > the goal and the protocol:
> >
> > We would like to convert discolored white lead carbonate pigment into
> > white lead sulfate using an ethereal hydrogen peroxide. The procedure
> > for this was established in the 1990s to create a non-aqueous delivery
> > method for the peroxide.
> > Equal parts 20 volume hydrogen peroxide and diethyl ether are shaken
> > together and then left to settle to separate the aqueous component.
> > The ethereal hydrogen peroxide is then brushed onto the discolored
> lead sample.
> >
> > Questions: What should be done with the used peroxide and ether
> > solution? How should we store the diethyl ether? Is there a form of
> > diethyl ether that is safer to use/store?
> >
> > Our lab has one cabinet for flammables, one for corrosives (with two
> > sides, acids and bases), and one vent to the outside that is connected
> > to the flammables cabinet. We have two fume hoods, one ducted and one
> > standalone. We have the Novec Fire Suppression system in our
> > collection storage, but the rest of the lab is fire-extinguishers
> > only. Our chemical disposal company has agreed they can take the
> > diethyl ether wastes but have not specified whether it should be a
> > separate waste stream or a specific container. Guidance would be much
> appreciated.
> >
> > Many thanks!
> > -Joanna
> >
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