DCHAS-L Archives, Jun 6, 2025 - Re: [DCHAS-L] Legacy chemicals and old MSDSs

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Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Controlled pyrophoric fire?

Date: Jun 6, 2025 17:05 UTC

Author: Kolodziej, Christopher <ckolodziej**At_Symbol_Here**EHS.UCLA.EDU>

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Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Legacy chemicals and old MSDSs

Date: Jun 6, 2025 17:52 UTC

Author: Murphy, Dr. Ruth Ann <000019862d8e7db2-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**LISTS.PRINCETON.EDU>

Good ideas all, but limited. There usually is no successor. They don't want replacement chemicals, they want to use the large store of what they have stockpiled for some years to come.

Let me give you two examples, one best case, one worst case. These are ceramic minerals. The first is called Albany Slip. The mines ran out in in the 1980s, but there are stock piles of this precious material that people want to use for special projects as long as it still exists. It has some free silica and is not very toxic and with care can be handled safely being mixed from a powder.

The other case is the industrial talc mined in upstate NY. These work so well, especially for cast ceramics, that if you go on the internet claiming to have a couple of 50# bags, you can start a bidding war. When the mines closed in 2009 after the first two successful lawsuits (I was retained in the first) for mesothelioma, many art professors stockpiled the talc. I found it in many art departments before the pandemic when I could still travel. But in 2021 as I was going through the photos from the architect on a building renovation project and the picture of the ceramic stockroom clearly showed the company logo on a bag of talc.

These schools can become defendants in lawsuits for the next 50 years considering the latency period for mesothelioma. Since the last MSDS for this product was created in 2009 and Hazcom started in 2012, just requiring a look into the record of this product in order to create an SDS would have alerted the school to the problem. But if OSHA just lets them use the old MSDS that says "no asbestos" then OSHA is complicit.

And this is only ceramics. There is talc in the make up department as well. Ben Nye is applying for bankruptcy. There are schools with paints containing cadmium, lead, chromium, and other toxic pigments and old stocks of these pigments or the paints. Natural Pigments also supplies all these pigments including mercury and arsenic pigments in powdered form along with a muller and oils so they can make their own paints. There are two-component urethane products from adhesives to molding and foam products with their attendant isocyanates. Lord help you if they teach photography and have some alternate processes. Printmaking you also should worry about. And all the shops.

OK, I'll take my pill and lie down now.

Monona

On Friday, June 6, 2025 at 11:56:57 AM EDT, James Keating <james.k.keating**At_Symbol_Here**gmail.com> wrote:

Monona,

If you want to keep some of the legacy chemicals find the successor manufacturer or distributor and compare the chemical abstract percentages with the original and use the SDS for the replacement chemical. If this solution is unavailable then review the MSDS and make sure all 16 sections are listed and continue to use the legacy MSDS, otherwise hire an environmental company to dispose of the legacy chemicals.

The use of the legacy MSDS should no more than a deminimis violation.

Jim Keating

On Fri, Jun 6, 2025, 10:39 AM Monona Rossol <0000030664c37427-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**lists.princeton.edu> wrote:

That would be great. You don't even have to do it anonymously, just say I'm shy.

And a 4th question: If we wanted to keep a legacy chemical for which the manufacturer is out of business, can we write an SDSs as the "manufacturer of record" and take responsibility for the material?

I'm thinking of a school that found 30 year old 50# bags of a mineral called Albany Slip. The mines for the slip ran out in the 1980s. This glaze mineral is very desirable and worth a lot of money. But like all minerals, it has some hazards. There are many analyses of this mineral to work up an SDS from.

And there are other substances that people might want to keep.

I'm really interested in this subject. Monona

On Thursday, June 5, 2025 at 11:16:51 AM EDT, James Kaufman <jkaufman**At_Symbol_Here**labsafetyinstitute.org> wrote:

Hi Monona.

Would you like me to ask OSHA anonymously for you. ... Jim

James A. Kaufman, Ph.D.
Founder, LSI
Serving Industry, Government, & Academia for 50 years
508-574-6264

On Thu, Jun 5, 2025, 2:29 PM Monona Rossol <0000030664c37427-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**lists.princeton.edu> wrote:
I remember we had a long conversation some years ago about legacy chemicals,so hopefully there are still people on this forum who can give me some guidance on the following questions.

1. Can OSHA cite an employer who has old MSDSs in their hazcom or lab standard files for workers reference?

2. And can they cite if the old MSDSs are for legacy products if the manufacturer no longer makes the product or is out of business?

3. What are the legal issues associated with using products in the workplace for which the manufacturer no longer claims liability?

I'm desperate for some kind of legal or OSHA guidance on this for some theater shops where we have workers.

Monona

M. Rossol, President
Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety
181 Thompson St., #23
New York NY 10012

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