Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:03:20 -0400
Reply-To: List Moderator <approval1**At_Symbol_Here**>
Sender: DCHAS-L Discussion List <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU>
From: List Moderator <approval1**At_Symbol_Here**>
Subject: Re: New Chemistry Laboratories, 3 responses

Subject: RE: [DCHAS-L] New Chemistry Laboratories
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:04:11 -0500
From: "Ashbrook, Peter" 

Some general thoughts.... There has to be an architect. Put together
a list of things you would like the laboratories to do for you. Be as
specific as possible to help the architect. I wouldn't think you
would need to worry about the design or codes, but the more detail
you can provide the architect about what you want, the more likely
you are to get something that works well for you. For example, how
many students will be in the laboratory at once, how much space does
each student need, how many fume hoods do you want/need, what kind of
special equipment will you have, how many sinks, do you want to have
house gas, house vaccuum, water lines to every lab station, etc...

Peter Ashbrook
Director, EHS
University of Missouri-Columbia


Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:05:31 -0400
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] New Chemistry Laboratories
From: richard rydza 

You may have input into your new plans but as far as design and use,
if you are not a qualified, registered architect or engineer, as code
requires as your expert in the design of your new building, then
the issue is dead in the water. You need to ask your architect
who designed the facility. They are more than willing to work with you
on intended use. Others offering opinions need to be cautious.

Richard Rydza, mrsafetyman
19 Wintergreen Place
Lackawanna, NY 14218
716-826-1747 phone / fax
Safety is Good Business
From: ACTSNYC**At_Symbol_Here**
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 23:16:21 EDT
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] New Chemistry Laboratories

Your school has hired an architect that doesn't know what she/he is
doing.  I do a lot of building planning.  Here's how it should go

The architect, their mechanical engineer, and a consulting industrial
hygienist (or other expert in the safety aspects of laboratories)
should have been sitting down with you and other faculty members
several times to find out exactly what chemicals and equipment your
curriculum requires,  how often you used various materials and in
what amounts, how many students in each class, and MANY other factors.

Once they have all this information and thoroughly understand your
needs, then THEY design the facility--not YOU.

Next, they submit their preliminary plans and meet with you again so
you can look over what they propose to check to see if there is
anything they missed or didn't understand.

My advice is that you give them a curriculum outline, a list of
materials and equipment, the number of students you will be teaching,
and tell them to come and talk to you.  Make them do their job.

It really irks me to hear they have put the onus on you.  Architects
that do this then have a way to avoid their responsibility for bad
planning.  When things to wrong, they defend themselves by saying
they built what you asked for.  Don't put yourself in that position.

Even worse, you don't know all the recent changes in OSHA and EPA
regulations, ventilation standards, and so on, that can impact the
lab's design.  And knowing all these regulations is not your job

To summarize--you asked:

"Where, or to whom can I go for good, recent information, plans and/or
designs for a freshman general chemistry laboratory and for an organic
undergraduate laboratory? "

The answer is "Go to the architects."   That's their damn job.

Monona Rossol, M.S., M.F.A.,
industrial hygienist
Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety, Inc.
Safety Officer,
United Scenic Artist's, Local 829
International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employes (IATSE)
181 Thompson St., #23
New York NY 10012-2586     212/777-0062

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