In regards to the local fire department removing extinguishers from the lab s, My understanding is that the OSHA Lab Standard can be summarized as 'follow Prudent Practices in the Laboratory, (National Research Council (1995))' a nd note that Prudent Practices lists fire extinguishers on 9 different page s; Section 6.F.2.3.1 is titled "Fire Extinguishers". It is reasonable to conclude from the above that, as per OSHA, it is mandat ory to have fire extinguishers in the labs. Section 5.C.11 (page 86) requires that all laboratory personnel should know what to do in case of an emergency, including clothing fires. As shown by airliner disasters, there is a significant difference between telling peopl e what to do in case of an emergency and training them in emergency respons e. In regards to extinguisher training- a suggestion - every calendar quarter, set some paper in a metal barrel on fire and have 'untrained' lab workers take turns putting out the fire. The fire department's removing the extinguishers is a bad decision. Personally, I would not let students use flammable materials or Bunsen burn ers in a lab that did not have extinguishers. If there were no extinguisher s in the lab, I would either bring my own or find a job elsewhere. John Nail Professor of Chemistry Oklahoma City University -----Original Message----- From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU] On Behalf Of Wa wzyniecki Jr, Stefan Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 1:50 PM To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Final thoughts on UCLA fatal accident. Prompted by the posting below, I'd like to get views on the existence and u se of fire extinguishers in labs. By providing extinguishers in labs, one assumes there may be need for a res earcher to use it. However, how many universities can document that resear chers are trained in their use? We had a situation where a senior researcher extinguished a small fire in a lab, but OSHA happened to investigate, and faulted the university for not providing training. Also, our fire department is in the process of REMOVING extinguishers from labs under the explanation that evacuation and pulling the alarm is the pre ferred procedure. Limited resources to perform routine extinguisher check s in addition to training are reasons given as well. Anyone else seeing this on their campus? -S. Wawzyniecki, CIH, CHMM EH & S -----Original Message----- From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**list.uvm.edu] On Behalf Of Li st Moderator Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 2:32 PM To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Final thoughts on UCLA fatal accident. From: "Nail, John"
Date: August 10, 2009 2:02:11 PM EDT Subject: RE: [DCHAS-L] Final thoughts on UCLA fatal accident. The one aspect of the UCLA incident that I have not seen discussed in these messages is that fact that the victim panicked; she ran away from the safety shower instead of towards it. Everyone who has worked extensively with pyrophores knows that it isn't a matter if whether something bad will happen, it is a matter of when it will happen and how the person responds; even the most highly- trained, careful, etc, poisonous snake handler eventually gets bitten. The following may sound silly, but it likely will be more useful than more regulations and documents, and making researchers write 'I will not set myself on fire' in their lab notebooks - there should be 'fire drills' in which the PI, a post-doc or a senior grad student has each person in the lab respond to various scenarios, such as a small fire on a lab bench (grab the extinguisher), small fire in a hood (extinguisher), large hood fire (evacuate), the lab worker is on fire (safety shower), someone else in the lab is on fire (shower or extinguisher or fire blanket), etc. The goal being that if someone is on fire, he/she reflexively runs to the shower and dowses themselves. $0.02 worth from someone who routinely handled the nastiest of the pyrophores (and was on fire a couple of times). John Nail Professor of Chemistry Oklahoma City University --- This e-mail is from the SAFETY**At_Symbol_Here**list.uvm.edu list. Archives of list discussions can be found at http://list.uvm.edu/archives/s afety.html
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