Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:38:01 -0700
Reply-To: Janan Hayes <jmhayes**At_Symbol_Here**EARTHLINK.NET>
Sender: DCHAS-L Discussion List <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU>
From: Janan Hayes <jmhayes**At_Symbol_Here**EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: 2 Re: [DCHAS-L] Glove use in academic teaching labs
Comments: To: List Moderator
Comments: cc: Lee Latimer
I completely agree with the argument that Lee has outlined.
However, this is one that after my 35 years in the California Community
Colleges would be used to encourage more computer based labs and less
The expense alone of the gloves would be a problem.  I always required
goggles, strongly encouraged lab coats or aprons and closed-toe shoes, but
never gloves in my introductory chemistry classes.  Fortunately, since
safety was important to me, my students learned to evaluate the situation
better than in some of my colleagues classes.  Things improved within the
later years I was teaching.  But the cost issues continue to be raised.  We
could not require the students to buy gloves.  We were fortunate that we
could require the goggles with some arrangements for those on financial aid
to get them with their aid dollars.
In the Intro Chem class and also in an intro Physical Science Lab that I
taught, we did make special arrangements and identify the need for safety
with experiments that untilized anything stronger than .1M bases, and
strong acids.  I also was very careful to demonstrate the safety issues
when I was demoing some of the items that Lee mentioned.
Just a thought.  I would hate to have this be another nail in the argument
to do away with hands on labs.
Jan Hayes,

> [Original Message]
> From: List Moderator 
> To: 
> Date: 8/12/2009 5:26:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] 2 Re: [DCHAS-L] Glove use in academic teaching labs
> From: "Latimer, Lee" 
> Date: August 11, 2009 9:08:22 PM EDT
> Subject: RE: [DCHAS-L] 2 Re: [DCHAS-L] Glove use in academic teaching  
> labs
> Rebecca and Pat,
> This is a worthwhile discussion.  While indeed early experiments do  
> use common household chemicals like salt for their components, the  
> student is building skills as well as understanding.  I would like to  
> see them respect rather than fear what they work with and encounter.   
> I believe that building good techniques will allow them to fear their  
> materials less and handle them with respectful confidence.  A part of  
> good lab technique is good PPE.  While the choice of latex vs nitrile  
> gloves can come with understanding of the materials to be encountered,  
> to wear gloves/Z87 safety glasses/labcoats or not is a very different  
> judgment to me.
> I wonít argue that salt solutions for density determinations and  
> similar materials need gloves.  It is the technique development and  
> habits that are at the root of the desire on my part.  As they move on  
> to cleansers in the home, strippers for furniture, oil changes and  
> garden treatments, many will make a judgment about the need for gloves  
> and glasses that will be based on their experience.  I hope that when  
> they are in a lab that they know what is standard for lab situations  
> and have practiced it since they first took labs so that when they  
> become my colleagues, I know they have safety ingrained to their  
> thoughts and I wonít have to take them to a hospital because they  
> didnít think they needed PPE.
> I find it amazing that we have PH.D. synthetic chemists coming to work  
> in industrial labs who think from the lack of enforcement PPE in their  
> academic training that personal glasses are safety glasses, that lab  
> coats are a maybe item and that gloves are only for when something is  
> hot, cold or sticky.  So Iím in favor of improving the traditions of  
> teaching technique, and reminding people that is an experiment because  
> we donít know the outcome absolutely (Murphyís Law does happen).
> We appreciate the efforts you make in teaching understanding, judgment  
> and technique.
> Lee

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