Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 14:39:41 -0500
Reply-To: DCHAS-L Discussion List <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU>
Sender: DCHAS-L Discussion List <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU>
From: Janet Baum <baum.janet**At_Symbol_Here**GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Need fume hood/fire alarm help
In-Reply-To: <OF08013DFB.C3A69F7E-ON852577AE.004142FA-852577AE.00417AF3**At_Symbol_Here**notes.cc.sunysb.edu>

Dear Ken, That's good news. If it were a chronic condition, it would lead to surprising results as I mentioned. Janet On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 6:55 AM, Kim Auletta wrote: > Thanks, everyone for your suggestions. I will pass them all on to the > consultant & building staff. > > Just to restate - the imbalance & inability to open the doors is not duri ng > our normal operations, but when the fire alarm is activated & the supply is > shut down. We do have sufficient make up air in the building for our > day-to-day work. > > Kim Auletta > Lab Safety Specialist > EH&S Z=6200 > Stony Brook University > kauletta**At_Symbol_Here**notes.cc.sunysb.edu > 631-632-3032 > EH&S Web site: http://www.stonybrook.edu/ehs/lab/ > > Remember to wash your hands! > > > From: scrooks**At_Symbol_Here**PPEPPRO.COM To: > DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU > Date: 09/29/2010 08:39 PM Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Need fume hood/fire alar m > help Sent by: DCHAS-L Discussion List > ------------------------------ > > > > Kim, > > Life safety has to trump the standards you mention. I can speak directly > to ANSI Z9.5 and that upcoming revision (which was written with an > expectation that NFPA 45 is also addressing your situation in their next > revision.) > > Z9.5 may not provide absolute clarity nor the answer that you're looking > for but it does attempt to fix the unintended earlier recipe for egress > issues. And although the update/publication is being held up while we > address a seprate public objection, the section addressing your question > will read as follows: > > Within Section 5.2.3 Laboratory Ventilation - Emergency Modes > > *Left-hand column "shall" text* > > *FIRE - Any manual or automatic means of detecting fire (such as a pull > station or smoke detector) in a laboratory room shall also activate an > appropriate fire emergency mode of operation for the room and/or building > ventilation system. > The selected fire emergency mode shall operate all supply and exhaust > equipment in the room in a manner that promotes egress, retards the sprea d > of fire and smoke, and complies with applicable fire safety codes and > standards.* > > *Right-hand column "explanatory or should" text* > > *The intent of the fire emergency ventilation mode is to promote safe > egress. This means apply negative pressurization in the room of fire ori gin > in order to retard the spread of smoke and toxic fire gases to other part s > of the facility but do not pressurize to the extent that the force needed to > open the door is excessive. (Also refer to the current versions of NFPA 9 2A > and NFPA 45.)* > * * > *The common practice of cutting off supply air to a fire zone does not > apply to some laboratories. The combination of a high exhaust rate and n o > supply can depressurize a room so far that some occupants would be unable to > open the doors. The initial design of the laboratory ventilation system > must include analysis of flow rates, pressure levels and forces on the do or > to ensure that egress is possible.* > > Regards, > > > Steve Crooks, MS, CIH, CSP > Chair, AIHA/ANSI Z9.5-2xxxx > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [DCHAS-L] Need fume hood/fire alarm help > From: Kim Auletta <*kauletta**At_Symbol_Here**NOTES.CC.SUNYSB.EDU* > > > Date: Wed, September 29, 2010 1:42 pm > To: *DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU* > > We have recently renovated 2 floors of our 7 story Chemistry building. Th is > job included adding MANY more fume hoods than were already in the buildin g. > The NFPA/ANSI/common sense code requires that the fume hoods stay & the > supply air/HVAC system shuts off when the fire alarm is activated. Of > course, this now makes the building so negative that they can't easily op en > the doors at the bottom of the stairwell/emergency exit and all the doors > quickly slam shut. The consultant is at a loss of what to do to fix this. > > How have your large buildings with numerous hoods dealt with this problem ? > Have you found a door mechanism that allows a person to overcome the seve re > negative imbalance and safely exit? Any advice or examples are greatly > appreciated. > > NFPA 45, Sect. 8.10.4 Fire detection and alarm systems shall not be > interlocked to automatically shut down chemical fume hood exhaust fans. > 8.10.5 Proper door operation for egress shall be maintained when the supp ly > system shuts down and the lab exhaust system operates, creating a pressur e > differential. > > Thanks! > > Kim Auletta > Lab Safety Specialist > EH&S Z=6200 > Stony Brook University* > **kauletta**At_Symbol_Here**notes.cc.sunysb.edu* > 631-632-3032 > EH&S Web site: *http://www.stonybrook.edu/ehs/lab/* > > Remember to wash your hands! > >

Dear Ken, That's good news. =A0If it were a chronic condition, it would lead to surprising results as I mentioned.

Janet

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 6:55 AM, Kim Auletta <kauletta**At_Symbol_Here**notes.cc.suny sb.edu> wrote:
Thanks , everyone for your suggestions. I will pass them all on to the consultant & building staff.

Just to restate - the imbalance &a mp; inability to open the doors is not during our normal operations, but when the fire alarm is activated & the supply is shut down. We do have suffi cient make up air in the building for our day-to-day work.


Kim Auletta
Lab Safety Specialist
EH&S =A0 =A0Z=6200
Stony Brook University
kauletta**At_Symbol_Here** notes.cc.sunysb.edu
631-632-3032
EH&S Web site:
http://www.stonybrook. edu/ehs/lab/

Remember to wash your hands!


From: scrooks**At_Symbol_Here**PPEPPRO.COM
To:
Date: 09/29/2010 08:39 PM
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Need fume hood/ fire alarm help
Sent by: DCHAS-L Discussion List << a href="mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU" target="_blank">DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.E DU>



Kim,
=A0
Life safety has to trump the standard s you mention. =A0I can speak directly to ANSI Z9.5 and that upcoming revision (which was written with an expectation that NFPA 45 is also addres sing your situation in their next revision.)
=A0
Z9.5 may not provide absolute clarity nor the answer that you're looking for but it does attempt to fix the unint ended earlier recipe for egress issues. =A0And although the update/publication is being held up while we address a seprate public objection, the section addressing your question will read as follows:
=A0
Within Section 5.2.3 Laboratory Venti lation - Emergency Modes
=A0
Left-hand column "shall" text
=A0
FIRE - Any manual or aut omatic means of detecting fire (such as a pull station or smoke detector) in a laboratory room shall also activate an appropriate fire emergency mode of operation for the room and/or building ventilation system.
The selected fire emergency mode shall operate all supply and exhaust equip ment in the room in a manner that promotes egress, retards the spread of fire and smoke, and complies with applicable fire safety codes and standards.

=A0
Right-hand column "explanator y or should" text
=A0
The intent of the fire eme rgency ventilation mode is to promote safe egress. =A0This means apply negative pressurization in the room of fire origin in order to retard the spread of smoke and toxic fire gases to other parts of the facility but do not pressurize to the extent that the force needed to open the door is excessiv e. (Also refer to the current versions of NFPA 92A and NFPA 45.)
=A0
The common practice of cut ting off supply air to a fire zone does not apply to some laboratories. =A0The combination of a high exhaust rate and no supply can depressurize a room so far that some occupants would be unable to open the doors. =A0The initial design of the laboratory ventilation system must include analysis of flow rates, pressure levels and forces on the door to ensure that egress is possible.
=A0
Regards,


Steve Crooks, MS, CIH, CSP
Chair, AIHA/ANSI Z9.5-2xxxx
=A0
=A0
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [DCHAS-L] Need fume hood/fire alarm help
From: Kim Auletta <
kau letta**At_Symbol_Here**NOTES.CC.SUNYSB.EDU& gt;
Date: Wed, September 29, 2010 1:42 pm
To:
DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**LIST.UVM.EDU

We have recently renovated 2 floors of our 7 story Chemistry building. This job included adding MANY more fume hoods than were already in the building. The NFPA/ANSI/common sense code requires that the fume hoods stay & the supply air/HVAC system shuts off when the fire alarm is activated. Of course, this now makes the building so negative that they can't easily open the doors at the bottom of the stairwell/emergency ex it and all the doors quickly slam shut. The consultant is at a loss of what to do to fix this.


How have your large buildings with numerous hoods dealt with this problem? Have you found a door mechanism that allows a person to overcome the severe negative imbalance and safely exit? Any advice or examples are greatly appreciated.


NFPA 45, Sect. 8.10.4 Fire detection and alarm systems shall not be interlo cked to automatically shut down chemical fume hood exhaust fans.

8.10.5 Proper door operation for egress shall be maintained when the supply system shuts down and the lab exhaust system operates, creating a pressure differential.

Thanks!

Kim Auletta
Lab Safety Specialist
EH&S =A0 =A0Z=6200
Stony Brook University

kauletta**At_Symbol_Here**notes.cc. sunysb.edu
631-632-3032
EH&S Web site:
http ://www.stonybrook.edu/ehs/lab/

Remember to wash your hands!


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