From: Ken Kretchman <kwkretch**At_Symbol_Here**NCSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] LADA Agreement (and working safely as a condition of employment)
Date: August 9, 2012 12:52:11 PM EDT
Reply-To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU>
Message-ID: <fac0.5692982c.3d55198b**At_Symbol_Here**>

I'm not sure where the disagreement exists here. As one who has also worked on both sides of the house, at a large corporation private research lab before academia, and reading some of these posts, the seeming disagreement might be over some of the suggestions about how safety personnel at these institutions go about their business, some of which was off the mark, an explanation of which that takes more time and effort than I am willing to spend.
If the primary message is that accountablity is key, not just being told you are accountable for doing the right things, but actually feeling that you are indeed accountable, and serves as the base for a successful safety program, whether industry or academia, I could not agree more. If the other key message is that there is more that can be done, it is hard to disagree with that. As to the need for a successful academic safety program which is sustainable as personnel change over time, I also agree that efforts for collaboration, consensus where possbile, and empathy for research needs, should be applied by the safety professional to achieve the proper balance of a safe environment against things like research flexibility, time and money. The safety cop does not work.
So as Kim and others have said, lots of people are and have been working on better solutions to problems while we all do or should recognize responsibiity and accountability is key.
Ken Kretchman, CSP, CIH
Director, Environmental Health and Safety
NC State University
Raleigh, NC 27695-8007

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 9:47 AM, <JAKSAFETY**At_Symbol_Here**> wrote:
I'm going to stand with Monona here and repeat that this has to be about creating more effective (lab) safety programs. If we don't like the result, what are we going to do differently.
Unless colleges and universities accept the principle that "working safely is a condition of employment" they will never have the best possible (lab) safety programs. ... Jim
James A. Kaufman, Ph.D.
Chair, ICASE Committee on Safety in Science Education
International Council for Associations of Science Education

The Laboratory Safety Institute (LSI)

A Nonprofit International Organization for
Safety in Science and Science Education

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In a message dated 8/9/2012 12:00:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, LISTSERV**At_Symbol_Here** writes:
So I say yet again, we should only be discussing one thing: How to make safety personnel and their programs more effective. For example, since lack of training was an issue in the UCLA case, how are people planning to get everyone trained and regularly updated? An untrained person is a school's weak link. If nobody wants to enforce attendance, I'd be interested in what alternate strategies people are using and how is that working out.

Look, if everyone just wants to share glowing words about the life and mission of academic safety people and not even discuss making changes in these hallowed programs, fine--I'll back off and wait for the next accident. But I'm not blind. I can see that in most of the schools in which I work the programs are not working. And it is especially dangerous in the art and theater departments--appalling actually.

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