From: Karen Salazar <kls_1**At_Symbol_Here**COX.NET>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Workplace and Laboratory Attire
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 14:04:42 -0400
Reply-To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU>
Message-ID: 178C7204-050C-4DB9-9AAC-7361A712AB17**At_Symbol_Here**cox.net
In-Reply-To


I don't know if I have missed something, but do the students receive any type of communication before they report to work about proper attire, or the safety guidelines?  If they are students learning how to be professionals, isn't it the job of the co-op sponsor to teach them?  


As an information professional, I have learned that you can never assume that someone ought to know something, even if it seems obvious to everyone else.  If their attire is a problem, set a policy, make them aware of it by sending them a letter outlining it, including consequences of not following it.   Put concrete examples in it, make them sign it, then post it very clearly somewhere, so that when said policy is violated, you can easily point to it, and remind them that they have signed a letter agreeing to it.  Old and grumpy is fine, because you are worried about their well being, but they are kids, and still learning.  Let's be the adults, and show them how to be professionals by our actions of practicing safe behavior in the lab, and not refer to them as wearing "hooker attire."  That bothers me.  Isn't the whole point of an internship to mentor these future professionals, anyway?

Karen Salazar

On Oct 12, 2013, at 11:21 AM, Ernie Lippert <ernielippert**At_Symbol_Here**TOAST.NET> wrote:

Well said
Regards,
Ernie Lippert
 
From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU] On Behalf Of Mack Powers
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 11:01 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Workplace and Laboratory Attire
 
With respect, I do not agree that this is too harsh. I have already shared this e mail with some of my female colleagues who have all agreed with both content and tone. The problem is that women today are being told by fashion and media that it is thier right to wear what they want. This concept is falacious espescially in the professional world where attire is prescribed by duties. In order to get across this truth our students need to hear this from work professionals and human resource personnel. If thier own frustration at the practice comes out in the message, so much the better.
 
Mack Powers
Chemistry Teacher
Altus High School

Altus, Oklahoma

Sent from my U.S. Cellular=AE Android-powered device




Wayne Phan <Wayne.Phan**At_Symbol_Here**POMONA.EDU> wrote: 

I would caution anyone forwarding this email to students.  Some of my colleagues think that email tone seemed very harsh, especially toward women.  What do you think?
 
Wayne
 
From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU] On Behalf Of Kennedy, Sheila
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 9:35 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Workplace and Laboratory Attire
 
Patricia,
May I use the following version of your note with our students?
I could remove the company name, but I think it has more force with a real company name attached.
Sheila
 
_________________________________
Sheila Kennedy, C.H.O.
Safety Coordinator | Teaching Laboratories
UCSD Chemistry & Biochemistry |MC 0303
Office: (858) 534-0221 | Fax: (858) 534-7687
_________________________________
 


=46rom the safety desk....

A colleague wrote recently about her new employees:

All,
I work for a company that accepts college students as  paid summer interns and also as 6-month term Co-Ops.   The students we accept are majors in Chemistry, Chemical Engineering and Biology.   They are sophomore and junior level students. 
 
We are having problems with the attire of many of the young ladies who come to us.  The young men have so far not presented any problems.  The problems are these:

1.       The student has accepted an internship or Co-Op with us that involves working in chemistry laboratory.  I am sure they have all taken a college level chemistry class, probably several.  Yet they show up on the first day with cloth sneakers, sandals, leggings that expose half their bare leg, etc.  When told that this is not proper lab attire, they are confused and reply that they have nothing of the sort we consider proper.  We require pants (or a skirt ) that covers the entire leg and a shoe that covers their entire foot and is leather or fake leather.  We even buy them an appropriate shoe, they just have to have something that will get them by for the 5 or 6 days it takes for the company-provided shoe to come in.  It is sometimes a real struggle =96 they don't have a shoe that will get them by, they have absolutely no appropriate pants (or so they say), when the ordered shoe comes in they for some reason "forget" to wear it into the lab, I could go on and on. 

2.       Attire that is simply not appropriate for the business environment.  Very short skirts, overly sheer tops, crop tops that expose the belly, extremely high heels, etc.  A Human Resources colleague of mine describes it as "hooker attire".  Maybe a little exaggerated, but you get the idea.  Our company has on at least one occasion sent an intern home to change clothing, and there are many other instances where we SHOULD have sent someone home.

 
These young ladies are majoring in a hard subjects and get good grades or we would not accept them as interns or Co-Ops.  I do not think they realize how bad they make themselves look when employers have to speak with them about their attire.  I also think they do not realize how hard previous generations of women have fought for women to be taken seriously in the workplace.  Their dress does not advance that cause.
 
I am going to suggest that my company send out information to potential interns on dress requirements especially for chemical laboratories.  Academic institutions can certainly help provide guidance on this too.  I think parents used to do this, but I believe that is over.    
 
Thank you for listening.  Yes, I am old and growing increasingly grumpy.  And I wear slip-resistant shoes that cover my entire foot and look rather dorky because I choose to work in a chemistry laboratory.   
 
Certified Chemical Hygiene Officer (CCHO)
Safety and Chemical Hygiene Specialist
West Pharmaceutical Services
Find West on Twitter and LinkedIn.


"Peifer, Patricia" <Patricia.Peifer**At_Symbol_Here**WESTPHARMA.COM> wrote: 
All,

 I work for a company that accepts college students as  paid summer interns and also as 6-month term Co-Ops.   The students we accept are majors in Chemistry, Chemical Engineering and Biology.   They are sophomore and junior level students. 
 
We are having problems with the attire of many of the young ladies who come to us.  The young men have so far not presented any problems.  The problems are these:

1.       The student has accepted an internship or Co-Op with us that involves working in chemistry laboratory.  I am sure they have all taken a college level chemistry class, probably several.  Yet they show up on the first day with cloth sneakers, sandals, leggings that expose half their bare leg, etc.  When told that this is not proper lab attire, they are confused and reply that they have nothing of the sort we consider proper.  We require pants (or a skirt ) that covers the entire leg and a shoe that covers their entire foot and is leather or fake leather.  We even buy them an appropriate shoe, they just have to have something that will get them by for the 5 or 6 days it takes for the company-provided shoe to come in.  It is sometimes a real struggle =96 they don't have a shoe that will get them by, they have absolutely no appropriate pants (or so they say), when the ordered shoe comes in they for some reason "forget" to wear it into the lab, I could go on and on. 

2.       Attire that is simply not appropriate for the business environment.  Very short skirts, overly sheer tops, crop tops that expose the belly, extremely high heels, etc.  A Human Resources colleague of mine describes it as "hooker attire".  Maybe a little exaggerated, but you get the idea.  Our company has on at least one occasion sent an intern home to change clothing, and there are many other instances where we SHOULD have sent someone home.

 
These young ladies are majoring in a hard subjects and get good grades or we would not accept them as interns or Co-Ops.  I do not think they realize how bad they make themselves look when employers have to speak with them about their attire.  I also think they do not realize how hard previous generations of women have fought for women to be taken seriously in the workplace.  Their dress does not advance that cause.
 
I am going to suggest that my company send out information to potential interns on dress requirements especially for chemical laboratories.  Academic institutions can certainly help provide guidance on this too.  I think parents used to do this, but I believe that is over.    
 
Thank you for listening.  Yes, I am old and growing increasingly grumpy.  And I wear slip-resistant shoes that cover my entire foot and look rather dorky because I choose to work in a chemistry laboratory.   
 
Pat Peifer, CCHO
Safety and Chemical Hygiene Specialist
 

Find West on Twitter and LinkedIn.


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