From: Monona Rossol <actsnyc**At_Symbol_Here**>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Cadaver Discussion
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 11:31:52 -0400
Reply-To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU>
Message-ID: 8D191B57DC8BAD1-1978-23EA**At_Symbol_Here**
In-Reply-To <4A14EEF4B27C1A458D48A52027ED87F476BF32EC**At_Symbol_Here**>

Those are wonderful, Frank  They inspire me to do the same kind of thing for some of the cockamamie systems I see and the suggestions I have for better systems in the art/theater shops.  I refer to drawings in the ACGIH Manual, but your simple thumbs up slides make it clearer for clients and students.
Great job.
One issue (of course I would have one).  It is the slide on whether or not formaldehyde is lighter or heavier than air.  Yes, a fact, but pretty irrelevant from a practicality point of view.  The diffusion of heavier than air gases and vapors may be slower, but they will diffuse in all directions and, if they escape, can all fill a space evenly.  An example are the heavy chlorofluoro hydrocarbons that still make it to the stratosphere to mess up the ozone layer.  It's easier to just have people conceptualize the need to treat all gases and vapors as being capable of being released in all directions available to them.
Monona Rossol, M.S., M.F.A., Industrial Hygienist
President:  Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety, Inc.
Safety Officer: Local USA829, IATSE
181 Thompson St., #23
New York, NY 10012     212-777-0062

-----Original Message-----
From: Demer, Frank R - (demer) (demer) <demer**At_Symbol_Here**EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>
Sent: Wed, Aug 27, 2014 6:59 pm
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Cadaver Discussion

I understand your challenges.  Since the anatomists must be very close to the contaminant source - increasing dilution ventilation gets you very little in the way or exposure control.   Downdraft does not work well either because the cadaver and the plastic they are wrapped in to retard desiccation, block the downdraft intakes.  Flanged, slotted, side-draft exhaust with laminar supply air from above provides the best exposure control.  I've tried to explain these issues in the following presentation and videos:
From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU] On Behalf Of Nail, John
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Cadaver Discussion
Tables have been obtained; I don't know if they are downdraft. There seems to be a reluctance to use any engineering control$ other than the increased room airflow that is mandated by the local department of health.
One of the - issues- is the 'why can't we do this as we did it 20 years ago'.
From: <Demer>, "Frank R - (demer)" <demer**At_Symbol_Here**EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU>
Reply-To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU>
Date: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Cadaver Discussion
Exhausting the air to the outside could prevent those outside the lab from being exposed to formaldehyde but unless you locally exhaust the cadaver tables in a particular manner (see:, those dissecting the cadavers may likely be over exposed to formaldehyde. 
-Frank Demer
From: DCHAS-L Discussion List [mailto:dchas-l**At_Symbol_Here**MED.CORNELL.EDU] On Behalf Of Nail, John
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2014 12:03 PM
Subject: [DCHAS-L] Cadaver Discussion
Many thanks for the information regarding cadaver labs.
A bit of context: The issue appears to be the idea of converting a classroom into a cadaver lab without exhausting the air from the room directly to the outside of the building.
Part of the on campus dialogue was the claim that the cadavers would not contain formaldehyde. The person making this claim produced a SDS that shows that the embalming fluid contains '1 to 100 % methanol, 1 to 100% phenol, and greater than 1 % formaldehyde'.
John Nail
Professor of Chemistry
Oklahoma City University

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