I hope you don't think I went to work after only a Bachelors. Back then, the M.F.A. was the terminal art degree.
I also suggest that the bachelors students "back then" had a better education than the grad students today. At that time you couldn't get a Bachelor's degree without some chemistry, physics, math, history, and English. We actually had to be able to write. Today students specialize too soon. Most art grads can't balance their check books and theater grads can't make change. And both think that OSHA is a small town in Wisconsin.
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I was lecturing to some theater grads who were taking hazcom from me because they were newly employed at a major NYC nonprofit theater, and I used the anaerobic bacteria in wine that excrete alcohol as an example. One of the students was upset that I would say there were bacteria in wine! No one in the room contradicted her and she threatened to google this from her phone to show me I'm wrong.
And I have more examples like this. You just don't know the gross ignorance that results from letting students take only the stuff that they want to take and that will get them a degree the fastest. We do NOT have the most EDUCATED population in history. We have the population with the most DEGREES.
And some of those degrees are just plain phony. A degree in Environmental Science can be gotten at many schools without any chemistry courses. They make economic and political decisions about pollution without knowing what pollution is. Go figure.
I've been lecturing to college age kids since 1978, and I see the damage we are doing to them with this college/trade school, degree-mill approach. So not only are they stressed paying for it, but even if they system works for them, they are leaving with a profession and no education.
Monona Rossol, M.S., M.F.A., Industrial Hygienist
President: Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety, Inc.
Safety Officer: Local USA829, IATSE
181 Thompson St., #23
New York, NY 10012 212-777-0062
-----Original Message-----
From: Margaret Rakas <mrakas**At_Symbol_Here**SMITH.EDU>
To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Sent: Tue, Mar 27, 2018 10:07 am
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] More than one-third of graduate students report being depressed
Sorry but I don't think Ph.D. depression in the sciences/engineering has much to do with paying for their education, since the vast majority in the US get tuition waivers and a stipend that generally now is fairly reasonable, esp if their health insurance is included as part of the package. I would assume in many other countries there is a similar level of support due to the fact that undergraduate education (not living expenses) is generally a public cost.
It is the constant stress of trying to get your project to work, hitting one dead end after another, and having to 'compete' for your advisor's attention that I would think is causing a lot of the problems. Plus, the young people your age who went to work with their bachelor's degrees in science or engineering are having a lot more fun (or it looks that way); this is also the time when relationships get serious (or not) for many of these students. And then there is the time spent studying to pass qualifying exams....what ISN'T there to be anxious about, really?
Once/if your personal life settles down and your project starts to take off--because really it does--life becomes a lot more bearable--again, I'm only talking physical sciences and engineering here. I hope this researcher gathered data across the spectrum--new students, students who had been in grad school 1-2 years, and then the 3-5 (0r 4-6) year students. I'll read the article once I have time to log in through my college's library services....
I do think that there needs to be more acceptance and even promotion of college mental health services; a number of the women who attended grad school in my department went to counseling (me, too) but the men were really stay-aways. This was in the 1980's--maybe it's changed, I sure hope so.
Just my personal experience. I'd go to grad school again but I think I'd warn anyone thinking of it that it's the first few years that are the toughest, mentally...and also, to seek out a therapist when you first started to feel bad, not to wait...
Margaret
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On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 9:22 AM, Monona Rossol <0000030664c37427-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**lists.princeton.edu> wrote:
Well, then mobilize for free or low cost advanced education. Anyone paying what you need to pay to get an education now who is NOT depressed doesn't have a good grip on reality.
Monona Rossol, M.S., M.F.A., Industrial Hygienist
President: Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety, Inc.
Safety Officer: Local USA829, IATSE
-----Original Message-----
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From: Wayne Wood <wayne.wood**At_Symbol_Here**MCGILL.CA>
To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Sent: Tue, Mar 27, 2018 8:40 am
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] More than one-third of graduate students report being depressed
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Our mental health experts are calling this situation in universities an epidemic. We need to mobilize.
W.
Wayne Wood | Director, Environmental Health and Safety =E2=80"
Directeur, Sante´,
securite´ et environnement|
McGill University | 3610 rue McTavish Street, 4th floor |
Montreal, Quebec, Canada, H3A 1Y2 | Tel: (514) 398-2391
From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU]
On Behalf Of Ralph Stuart
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2018 8:10 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: [DCHAS-L] More than one-third of graduate students report being depressed
Here is an article from Nature that academic lab safety staff may want to consider as they review the last article from the NIOSH Blog, particularly in light of the LA Times article "In ruling for victim in UCLA attack, California Supreme
Court says universities should protect students" at
More than one-third of graduate students report being depressed
Rates of anxiety and depression among PhD and master's students exceed those in general public.
PhD and master's students worldwide report rates of depression and anxiety that are six times higher than those in the general public (T. M. Evans et al. Nature Biotech. 36, 282-284; 2018). The report, based on the responses of 2,279 students in 26 nations,
found that more than 40% of respondents had anxiety scores in the moderate to severe range, and that nearly 40% showed signs of moderate to severe depression. The high rates suggested by this study are alarming, says Teresa Evans, a neuroscientist at the University
of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio and the study's lead author. She notes that students suffering from anxiety or depression might have been especially motivated to take the survey, which could have skewed the results. But she believes that the findings
underscore the severity of the problem and the need for a response. Evans adds that universities should provide students with training to help them manage their time and cope with stress.
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--
Margaret A. Rakas, Ph.D.
Manager, Inventory & Regulatory Affairs
Clark Science Center
413-585-3877 (p)