From: "Wright, Mike" <mwright**At_Symbol_Here**USW.ORG>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] A pesticide question to boggle the mind
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 02:35:09 +0000
Reply-To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Message-ID: 673A00C44C25834BA3198AADFC1EB7AE0121525136**At_Symbol_Here**PIT-MAIL01.uswa-us.local
In-Reply-To <165ce54b348-1ebd-17c27**At_Symbol_Here**webjas-vaa140.srv.aolmail.net>


Monona, no disagreement. But I probably ought to say something about the source of the quote. Jack Layton was a Canadian politician and activist who became the head of the New Democratic Party, the most progressive major party in North America. He had a real shot at Prime Minister, before he contracted cancer and died in 2011. He was as tough as they come, and he certainly knew the value of anger. He expressed his anger enough times in speeches on the floor of Parliament and to audiences all around Canada. But he also knew that his biggest job was overcoming the paralyzing fear and despair that afflicts so many people whose voices and whose efforts we need. He fought for justice as hard and passionately as anyone I ever met. And as for love vs. anger, he also knew that anger is meaningless unless is rooted in love - unless it's a response to what's injuring the people, institutions or values you love. The quote came shortly before he died, and was a counter to the bitterness and despair so many of his followers felt.

 

Jack would have agreed with everything you said about righteous anger, reason, justice and forgiveness. And he would have honored you for saying them. But he also would have stuck to his words.  

 

Mike

 

Michael J. Wright

Director of Health, Safety and Environment

United Steelworkers

 

412-562-2580 office

412-370-0105 cell

 

"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world."

                                                                                                                                                                                         Jack Layton

 

 

 

 

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU] On Behalf Of Monona Rossol
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 11:10 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] A pesticide question to boggle the mind

 

Another good example.  But it is time to rebut your charming sign off at the end of your emails.

 

"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world."        Jack Layton

 

My friends, if you are not angry, you are not listening.  And it's insane to love or hope without reason.

 

Never forgive unless you know the offender has changed.  Never forget anything because your recollection of the facts is needed to fight for change.  Embrace your anger as motivation to seek justice.  And seek justice with all of energy your anger provides until they day they bury you.

 

 

Monona Rossol, M.S., M.F.A., Industrial Hygienist

President:  Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety, Inc.

Safety Officer: Local USA829, IATSE

181 Thompson St., #23

New York, NY 10012     212-777-0062

actsnyc**At_Symbol_Here**cs.com   www.artscraftstheatersafety.org


 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Wright, Mike <mwright**At_Symbol_Here**USW.ORG>
To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Sent: Wed, Sep 12, 2018 9:55 am
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] A pesticide question to boggle the mind

Another good example is nicotine, which was registered for use as a pesticide until 2008, when the last remaining producer requested that EPA cancel the registration.  And we all know about its other uses, not exactly regulated by EPA.

 

Mike Wright

 

Michael J. Wright

Director of Health, Safety and Environment

United Steelworkers

 

412-562-2580 office

412-370-0105 cell

 

"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world."

                                                                                                                                                                                         Jack Layton

 

 

 

 

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU] On Behalf Of Monona Rossol
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 9:19 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] A pesticide question to boggle the mind

 

ABSOLUTELY, Rob.  This clearly is something I want to pursue in print to make people aware.  Although I'll probably just end up alerting farmers and gardeners to reasons to buy the snow product.

Monona Rossol, M.S., M.F.A., Industrial Hygienist

President:  Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety, Inc.

Safety Officer: Local USA829, IATSE

Safety Consultant:  SAG-AFTRA

181 Thompson St., #23

New York, NY 10012     212-777-0062


 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: ILPI Support <info**At_Symbol_Here**ILPI.COM>
To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Sent: Wed, Sep 12, 2018 8:56 am
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] A pesticide question to boggle the mind

So is it legal to sell chlorpyrifos if you market it as house paint, incense, or fabric softener?  Need an EPA law expert here to chime in.

 

Rob Toreki

 

 ======================================================

Safety Emporium - Lab & Safety Supplies featuring brand names

you know and trust.  Visit us at http://www.SafetyEmporium.com

esales**At_Symbol_Here**safetyemporium.com  or toll-free: (866) 326-5412

Fax: (856) 553-6154, PO Box 1003, Blackwood, NJ 08012

 

 

On Sep 11, 2018, at 3:59 PM, Peter Zavon <pzavon**At_Symbol_Here**ROCHESTER.RR.COM> wrote:

 

Have I missed something?  The use Monona describes is clearly not for killing or controlling pests.  How, then, is it subject to EPA pesticide regulation?

 

I know, that is bureaucratic silo-ing, but isn't that the nature of bureaucracy?

 

 

Peter Zavon, CIH
Penfield, NY

PZAVON**At_Symbol_Here**Rochester.rr.com

 

 

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU] On Behalf Of ILPI Support
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 1:06 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] A pesticide question to boggle the mind

 

OMG and then some.  See https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/ppls/005481-00091-20120214.pdf and scroll down to the part where it says "Metaldehyde is a systemic toxin. There is no antidote. The following instructions are meant for laypeople. There is no home treatment. Exposed individuals and animals should receive emergency care as quickly as possible."  And keep on reading from there.

 

Given that it is classified by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as a Restricted Use Pesticide (RUP), I'd call in a HazMat response to the film location and tell them to send the manufacturer the bill.  And ask a class action lawyer for a referral fee.

 

Who the heck is selling this pesticide for such egregiously unlawful use? 

 

Report the violation here: https://echo.epa.gov/report-environmental-violations   See also https://www.epa.gov/pesticide-incidents/how-report-spills-and-environmental-violations  I wonder if there are financial rewards for reporting incidents like this?

 

Rob Toreki

 

 ======================================================

Safety Emporium - Lab & Safety Supplies featuring brand names

you know and trust.  Visit us at http://www.SafetyEmporium.com

esales**At_Symbol_Here**safetyemporium.com  or toll-free: (866) 326-5412

Fax: (856) 553-6154, PO Box 1003, Blackwood, NJ 08012

 

 

 

On Sep 11, 2018, at 12:35 PM, DCHAS Membership Chair <membership**At_Symbol_Here**DCHAS.ORG> wrote:

 

From: Monona Rossol <actsnyc**At_Symbol_Here**cs.com> 
Re; new thread: pesticide question to boggle the mind

I need advice.  There is a product used on film and TV locations as artificial snow.  The SDS on the product says it is 98% metaldehyde.  And metaldehyde when exposed to high heat produces this snow-like stuff. This reaction has been known to magicians for years.  I looked it up a 1936 book of parlor tricks and there it was. The trick was done with pure metaldehyde in a dish with the "snow" reaction started by putting a hot soldering iron into the metaldehyde.

So this snow product is composed of 
            1) 98% metaldehyde and 
            2) about 2% of a chemical source of heat (probably a fuse-like cord).

Metaldehyde (CH3CHO4) is a polymerized acetaldehyde. More specifically, it is a cyclic tetramer of acetaldehyde and is used extensively around the world as a molluscicide in agriculture for the control of slugs to protect crops. Acetaldehyde is a gas. Polymerized acetaldehyde (metaldehyde), it is a white solid (usually in granules). 

As for how metaldehyde makes snow, the theory that best fits these observations is that when heated, this white powder sublimes and re-solidifies in the form of the white fluffy flakes. The heat could convert it into some unregulated aldehyde-related chemical, but considering the white solid state, I'm guessing that the flakes probably are still metaldehyde. 

The product was just used again on the film location and as usual, we had health complaints.  The producers hired a lab to "test the air" during the shoot. The lab chemists made an assumption that the metaldehyde converts to acetaldehyde when heated so they only tested the air for acetaldehyde and other aldehydes.  Their study found very low amounts, amounts so low that it is more likely that they came from the burning of the heat source chemicals.  Because IF the snow product, which is 98% metaldehyde DID all convert and become acetaldehyde gas, the amounts in the air would by vastly larger than the amounts found.  And IF the 98% of metaldehyde DID all convert to acetealdehyde gas, there would be NO SNOW.  It would just disappear into the air since it is a gas.

So the lab report supports the theory that the white stuff is, indeed, metaldehyde in a different form.   Until and unless the lab analyzes the white snow material and determines otherwise, I am assuming it is metaldehyde.

And metalaldehyde is toxic. For example, effective October 18, 2016, the EPA has set tolerances on various foods for methaldehyde to protect consumers from toxic effects (FR Doc. 2016-25166, amending §180.523 Metaldehyde; tolerances for residues).  The EPA re-registered metaldehyde as a ‘restricted use pesticide' and required risk-reduction measures to be adopted due to the potential short-term and long-term effects on wildlife. The World Health Organization (WHO) classifies metaldehyde as a "moderately hazardous" pesticide (class II). The European Commission has adopted a directive that restricts pesticides levels to 0.1 ?g/L in drinking water ( the U.S. doesn't have an MCL for metaldehyde).

So it makes no sense to me that the product's metaldehyde is being thrown all over the whole location, in bits and pieces, some of it in particles small enough to inhale, get in the eyes, take home on your clothes, etc. The product is usually used outdoors, but there are times they are used indoors where exposure is even more concentrated. 

MY QUESTIONS FOR YOU:

1.  Is the white stuff metaladehyde or an unregulated related chemical?
2.  Does anyone have an EPA contact that might actually want to look at this use of a pesticide?  We need to get this stuff out of our working lives.


Monona Rossol, M.S., M.F.A., Industrial Hygienist
President:  Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety, Inc.
Safety Officer: Local USA829, IATSE
Safety Consultant:  SAG-AFTRA
181 Thompson St., #23
New York, NY 10012     212-777-0062
actsnyc**At_Symbol_Here**cs.com   www.artscraftstheatersafety.org

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