From: ILPI Support <info**At_Symbol_Here**ILPI.COM>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Thoughts on some arguments against drains under safety showers
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2018 10:22:18 -0400
Reply-To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Message-ID: BA26B61D-29DE-4019-A36E-C98DCADFA187**At_Symbol_Here**

Disclaimer: My company. Safety Emporium, is both a Guardian Equipment and Justrite distributor.

Guardian Equipment also makes enclosed booths, however these are stainless steel units meant primarily for cleanroom applications:

Modesty curtains are also available for Guardian's shower line (and presumably other brands): and  They may seem a bit expensive, but when you think about the time and effort to design, jury-rig,  and maintain something on your own, they really aren't.  Modesty considerations are one important factor that can turn a minor incident into a serious incident or a serious incident into a fatality. See, for example, 

Justrite also makes booth units:  Ignore that fantastical list pricing on their site as you can get these through dealers considerably cheaper (contact me off list if you're curious about pricing or lead times).  Note that some even include sump pumps, so excess water in the sump can be directed to an existing drain system, which means you can do these as retrofit installations without the hassle and expense of ripping up the floor to put in a new floor drain.

Hawes also has a booth system: 

Finally, if you're designing your own building, you can think about building an alcove for your safety stations so you can put a simple shower curtain and rod across the front.  Just make sure the alcove is wheelchair-accessible and has dimensions that meet ADA requirements. I suspect, however, that this last method is actually among the most expensive options!

Rob Toreki

Safety Emporium - Lab & Safety Supplies featuring brand names
you know and trust.  Visit us at
esales**At_Symbol_Here**  or toll-free: (866) 326-5412
Fax: (856) 553-6154, PO Box 1003, Blackwood, NJ 08012

On Oct 6, 2018, at 3:43 AM, Michael Ahler <mahler**At_Symbol_Here**HANCOCKCOLLEGE.EDU> wrote:

I too, have some experience in recommending emergency shower equipment to the Chemistry Department (actually the architect of the new Science building (completed ca. 2011).   Our office (EH&S) along with many other campus stake holders had an opportunity to peruse the early architectural plans for the new 5-story Molecular Sciences building  - to ask questions or make comment and suggestions.
I spotted the traditional eyewash/shower stations in all the chemistry labs and realized I had the opportunity (unsuccessfully) to induce a change in the two rooms that were to offer the organic lab sections that historically produced almost all of the department's showering events.
I have always seen two disincentives to using an emergency shower correctly (or at all):    1) the large volume of water is an issue even in a single story building, and 2)  there are privacy issues with an unclothed person in the shower.
If there were some device that could address both of these concerns then the only remaining issues would be the money involved and training of lab users on the equipment.   Turns out, there is (at least) one - which I recommended with notes added to the plan copy I had and a detailed memo to the campus architect overseeing the project.
While I am not advocating for this particular brand or model number (there may be others that will suffice) I found a shower enclosure by Hemco  (catalog number 16601)   that provides a 5 inch deep containment at the bottom to prevent/minimize flooding in the room and a shower curtain at the front for the privacy of the patient.   ( The illustration doesn't seem to show the curtain.)
These can be pricey.    These didn't end up being included in the completed building.    I assume it was a budgetary decision.     As far as I know, no response was offered to anyone at EH&S about them.      This was typical for big-budget projects on the campus.   I assume the culture remains about the same.

The "contaminated floor drain" argument would be too easy to fix even if it was real.

I retired in 2009, during the construction of the building.
 Thanks for listening.

Michael Ahler
Associate Faculty Member
LPS (Chemistry) Allan Hancock College
and    retired CHO, Cal Poly San Luis Obispo

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU> on behalf of Rita Kay Calhoun <r.calhoun**At_Symbol_Here**MOREHEADSTATE.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2018 12:28:23 PM
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Thoughts on some arguments against drains under safety showers
1) Don't lick the drain! Also, most floor cleaners should kill most bacteria, so mop every once in a while.  There are also bactracides that can be poured dour the drain periodically.
2) I bet the architect would think it is worth the cost if they had to mop, squeeze mop so water goes into bucket, lift very heavy bucket and pour water into sink, repeat, repeat,  repeat-.  How many gallons of water are dumped by safety showers per minute, again????? 


The drain will not take all the water as it comes out, but it sure helps to have a drain to push the water to when you're cleaning up.
Don't let them talk you out of drains. Also, make sure the floor slopes in the correct direction.




From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU] On Behalf Of Melissa Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 11:56 AM
Subject: [DCHAS-L] Thoughts on some arguments against drains under safety showers


Hi Everyone,


This is a topic that's been discussed in depth before, but the architects planning our new science building had two arguments against drains under safety showers that I wasn't that familiar with and wanted to get people's thoughts:


They say:
1) Some medical facilities are calling them a health hazard due to possible build-up of biological stuff (presumably bacteria or mold?)
2) The drain will be too small to capture enough water to make it worth the cost (they did accept that a sloped floor might help with this)


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