From: TILAK CHANDRA <0000058f112ac338-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**LISTS.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Beacon HS student burned in botched chemistry experiment awarded nearly $60M
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 13:57:04 +0000
Reply-To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Message-ID: DM5PR0601MB378447971143786BE858CDF288F50**At_Symbol_Here**DM5PR0601MB3784.namprd06.prod.outlook.com
In-Reply-To


Hello:

I agree with Monona about the "Safety is also Science".

Hands-on training, in addition to an in-class OSHA training, will help to High school teachers to conduct experiments safely in classroom settings.  Safety should be practiced in the lab. The school district should also conduct an annual hazard/risk assessment training for all science teachers, and this process will enhance the overall safety awareness across the board. It is all about the safety culture!

 

The basic safety concept/safety education could be developed during the college education as well as during the certification.

 

Tilak

 

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU> On Behalf Of Dorothy Holley
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2019 2:51 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Beacon HS student burned in botched chemistry experiment awarded nearly $60M

 

Manona,

 

Thank you.  You pointed it out exactly.  We need real science being taught (not online versions) by real teachers (that means training and resources for proper materials, equipment, training, retraining) who are supported by real administrators (who also understand the nature of science) and a real BoE (who also have resources to make informed decisions about how to facilitate learning).  "We" means all of us, whether we have children or not.  Our industry suffers when real science is not taught.  I'm sure that is why the ACS has an education branch.  On this, the 4th of July, I'd go so far to say that our country depends on educating all of our children; it is a matter of national security. We all pay taxes to get this job done well.  Thank you to those who serve on boards and commissions, paid or volunteer, who teach and educate the public on the importance of real science, real teachers, real administrators and real Boards... and to those who help deal with what happens when the system isn't working the way it should.  

 

Let us all put energy into fixing the whole system. Please don't let your district diminish science instruction due to the money it takes to teach it.  Get involved in a positive way.  Hats off to you Manona for speaking out to large audiences.  

 

On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 5:18 AM Peter Zavon <pzavon**At_Symbol_Here**rochester.rr.com> wrote:

Debbie,

 

I don't run for my local school board.  Since I have no children, that would be a political impossibility.  However, I have been on the Health and Safety Advisory Committee to that Board for the last 5 years.  The committee includes representatives of the school nurses, the principals, teachers, district administration, food service director, Assistant Superintendent for facilities, a designated member of the School Board and the insurance company (now a Safety professional but previously an Industrial Hygienist), among others.  One of the parent members, who just rotated off, was also a Safety Professional and used to just "drop by" construction and major maintenance sites for several years, reporting back to the committee.  Most of those concerns have been well internalized by the District now, one reason he felt comfortable leaving.  We have also have the Chemical Safety Officer (a chemistry teacher in the high school) join us from time to time, and he coordinates with the science staff in the middle school.

 

Now that I am nominally retired, I hope to get more involved with the arts and theater side of activities in the coming school year, since I am pretty comfortable with how the science side (at least chemistry) is being handled.  So far, whenever I've asked a question about arts activity, the answers coming back have been pretty descent.

 

 

Peter Zavon, CIH
Penfield, NY

PZAVON**At_Symbol_Here**Rochester.rr.com

 

 

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU] On Behalf Of Debbie M. Decker
Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2019 7:27 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Beacon HS student burned in botched chemistry experiment awarded nearly $60M

 

By way of perspective

 

I'm President of my local school board.  This sort of stuff keeps me up at night, as you might imagine.

 

Very early in my term on the Board (I've been on the board 2 and a half years), I championed a board statement on safety which supported policy already in place.  But it truly isn't enough.  I sit on the district safety committee which has representation from local fire and police, site administration and staff.  We recently had a lockdown incident (tuned out to be a hoax) which exercised the procedures in place and the district collaboration with fire and police.  All went well and the plan worked but there are some spots that need adjusting.  Thankfully, site administrators have been practicing their safety plans pretty comprehensively across the district.  But "safety" in the K-12 education context doesn't necessarily include science safety.

 

I'm currently working with the director of secondary education and one of the high school chemistry teachers to plan a half-day safety training for middle/high school science teachers before school starts this fall.  That's taken some doing to get traction and I'm grateful to the science teachers who have pushed the issue.  The teachers have had safety training over the years but it's been with a contractor and not particularly engaging.

 

Because health and safety is my vocation and career, I feel I bear a particular burden to make sure training happens.  I also believe colleges of education bear responsibility here, too.  There just isn't anything in the credential curriculum that includes safety instruction for teachers seeking a credential in STEM.

 

I'm doing what I can but it seems a Sisyphean task.  I feel like once I get my local district in better shape, then it's on to the County Office and then to the state school boards association.  And I certainly don't feel supported, necessarily, from the health and safety community.  When have any of you offered your support and help to your local school district or - even better - your friendly neighborhood school board representative?  How  many of you have run for school board?  School boards need other voices, as Lynn points out below.

 

Thanks for listening,

Debbie

 

Debbie M. Decker, CCHO, ACS Fellow

Past Chair, Division of Chemical Health and Safety

Councilor and Programming Co-Chair

University of California, Davis

(530)754-7964

(530)304-6728

dmdecker**At_Symbol_Here**ucdavis.edu

 

And

 

President, Board of Trustees

Representative, Area 5

Woodland Joint Unified School District

Woodland, California

 

Birkett's hypothesis: "Any chemical reaction

that proceeds smoothly under normal conditions,

can proceed violently in the presence of an idiot."

 

 

 

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU> On Behalf Of paracelcusbombastusvon**At_Symbol_Here**juno.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 2:07 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Beacon HS student burned in botched chemistry experiment awarded nearly $60M

 

To begin I am not defending the BoE in any way. 

 

But as I read the account and numerous responses I thought I would take a look at the makeup and background of my local school board.  There are nine members whom are elected from various sub-districts.  Two had degrees in education and experience in general education one who has a PhD in education.  Three had degrees in social science or social work experience.  One is a prosecuting attorney.  One is an accountant (CPA). And one works as a business human resources/public relations.  The last did not list a biography. 

 

None had any science/safety experience noted in their bios. 

 

Most expressed concerns in "getting along with each other" and addressing "differences".

 

So much for STEM and safety.

 

Lynn Knudtson

 

 



---------- Original Message ----------
From: Monona Rossol <0000030664c37427-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**LISTS.PRINCETON.EDU>
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Beacon HS student burned in botched chemistry experiment awarded nearly $60M
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 04:32:51 +0000

And your answer would be to allow people like this young man to be uncompensated and the Board to continue to ignore there responsibility to train teachers for their jobs?  

 

Sorry, but without public trials to point out their gross negligence, Boards of Education wouldn't have any impetus to do anything about this typical lack of training.

 

I was given the Karen Silkwood award June 18th by the New York Committee on Occupational Safety And Health.  I was expected to give a speech at which, as usual, I would be funny and gracious to all the union representatives and other members of NYCOSH.  Instead, I bit the hand that fed me and brought up this trial that had opened on June 10th only a few blocks North of the United Teachers Federation building where the Gala was located.  

 

What I said was that age 83, this would probably be the last time I would be speaking to this many union ganseh machers (big doers) at one time and I was not about to let the opportunity go easily. I implored the union teachers organizations to stop supporting the teachers who don't want to "waste their time" in OSHA training. Instead, I want this mandatory training restored and the training improved to insure that OSHA required Lab Standard and Hazcom include real and practical information that is site-specific to the conditions in the school and to how to teach safely. 

The objective should be to train teachers to provide the students with the education they REALLY NEED.  For example, let's insure that no high school student, most of whom already have have jobs, can graduate without knowing their rights on the job -- rights to be trained and safe under the OSHA regulations.   By including these facts, a civics course could actually be relevant to a student's need when teaching about US laws and history.

 

And no college student should EVER be given a degree that implies they are now ready to practice in the sciences or the arts because they don't know a single law or regulation that applies to that work, or how to do it safely and legally.   And that goes double for the schools that teach teachers to teach those courses!

 

Right now, lawsuits are the only tool in the box to make this happen.  If we could find a better one that would still compensate the injured and punish the guilty, that would be fine.  But hurting those in charge of education financially and making the public aware of the lousy teacher training in schools is at least a start.  And the real message of this trial should be that the negligence established is not limited to the Beacon School, it is national, pervasive and insidious.  

 

What we need to do in concert here is to point out to the public precisely what you have stated below in your email:  that without hand-on laboratory experience, you are not graduating real chemists who can contribute to science in the real world.  Tell Boards of education that they are not allowed to simply remove vitally important courses from the curriculum because they require an investment in training of teachers and insuring that classrooms are designed and equipped to support the curriculum.  

 

And that's what the Boards have been doing for decades now, until most schools don't have a single properly appointed laboratory or science classroom, art room, or theater shop. I really KNOW this is true because I work on building planning jobs and do OSHA compliance inspection and training of schools all over the US.  Most of the new schools are not equipped for science, art or theater training.  And the old ones are a disaster.

 

The school buildings all over the United States, stand as mute evidence that Boards of Education don't give a damn about real education and the safety of their students.  And the majority of the teachers in those school so untrained that they are a danger to themselves and others.

 

Monona

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dorothy Holley <
dtholley**At_Symbol_Here**NCSU.EDU>
To: DCHAS-L <
DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Sent: Tue, Jul 2, 2019 3:42 pm
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Beacon HS student burned in botched chemistry experiment awarded nearly $60M

I am a science teacher, too.  I'm not sure that large settlements will encourage school boards to provide safety training.  It is my experience that school boards are in the business of "spending" money.... football stadiums, technology, things that get noticed and look good.  Our students already are encouraged to take online classes with online labs (no potential dangers there, right?).  I have not had a budget in the last 3 years to purchase supplies, much less be trained.  And yes, I teach in a right to work state with no collective bargaining power.  Beacon High is in a state with unions.  

 

Let's focus on quality teaching and learning.  As chemists we understand the importance of hands on labs and demonstrations, and that they be done safely, to learn chemistry.  There are no short cuts.  Large payouts from a BOE won't be a short cut to ensuring safety training.  Chemists speaking up to schools, administrations, and districts demanding students graduate with hands on lab experience and a working knowledge of chemistry will go farther for the cause of science literacy. 

 

On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 1:38 PM Mary Shane <space7051**At_Symbol_Here**gmail.com> wrote:

Being a high school science teacher, I can say there is no safety training done in my district. I think there should be mandatory training each year.  I also agree there should be a safety course required for all science teachers as part of there education in college. There should also be a course for those who will teach elementary school.  I take safety seriously and accept the ribbing from my peers. I will be doing Flinn Scientific 's safety course this summer. 

 

On Tue, Jul 2, 2019, 10:03 AM Yaritza Brinker <YBrinker**At_Symbol_Here**fele.com> wrote:

It may be different in your area, but where I live the school board۪s job is comparable to a CEO۪s job| raise funds, approve building improvements, and approve high level policy changes. Much like a CEO, the board doesn۪t know who needs training nor what kind of training. The board assumes the superintendent and principals are providing adequate training for the teachers.

 

To make things worse, there is a false notion amongst the public (principals included) that a degree in science implies knowledge of experiment safety. Hence, the importance of teaching safety at the college level. In my opinion, laboratory safety should be a required course for both science students and science teachers.

 

Thank you,

 

Yaritza Brinker

260.827.5402

 

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU> On Behalf Of Neil Edwards
Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2019 10:13 AM
To:
DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Beacon HS student burned in botched chemistry experiment awarded nearly $60M

 

** External Email **

Hopefully, this huge jury award and the publicity generated by it will finally bring a decent amount of nationwide publicity to this ongoing problem, maybe enough to make school boards sit up and take notice of what might happen if they don۪t properly train and supervise their science teachers.

 

Neil Edwards

Laboratory Manager

Adjunct Associate Professor
Department of Chemistry

LIU Post
Brookville, NY

 

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU> On Behalf Of Monona Rossol
Sent: Monday, July 1, 2019 5:28 PM
To:
DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Beacon HS student burned in botched chemistry experiment awarded nearly $60M

 

WARNING: This email originated from outside of Long Island University. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. - LIU Information Technology

Oh they got it right. Blaming the board of Education who should have provided the rules.  Once in a while the jury sorts through all the facts and figures it out. 

Monona Rossol, M.S., M.F.A., Industrial Hygienist President:  Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety, Inc. Safety Officer: Local USA829, IATSE 181 Thompson St., #23 New York, NY 10012     212-777-0062
actsnyc**At_Symbol_Here**cs.com    www.artscraftstheatersafety.org  


-----Original Message-----
From: Samuella Beth Sigmann <
sigmannsb**At_Symbol_Here**APPSTATE.EDU>
To: DCHAS-L <
DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Sent: Mon, Jul 1, 2019 04:00 PM
Subject: [DCHAS-L] Beacon HS student burned in botched chemistry experiment awarded nearly $60M


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We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do everything with nothing. Teresa Arnold paraphrased from Konstantin Josef Jire ek (1854 " 1918)

 

Samuella B. Sigmann, MS, NRCC-CHO

Senior Lecturer/Safety Committee Chair/Director of Stockroom

Chemistry

Appalachian State University

525 Rivers Street

Boone, NC 28608

Phone: 828 262 2755

Fax: 828 262 6558

 

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Dorothy Holley

 

PhD graduate student

North Carolina State University

Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics Education

College of Education

Raleigh, NC

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Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics Education

College of Education

Raleigh, NC

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