From: pzavon**At_Symbol_Here**ROCHESTER.RR.COM
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] water based paint seminar
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 20:27:21 -0500
Reply-To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Message-ID: 000501d5c81e$46bf8bb0$d43ea310$**At_Symbol_Here**rochester.rr.com
In-Reply-To <930714629.11471437.1578694946068**At_Symbol_Here**mail.yahoo.com>


Science fiction sometimes actually turns out to include semi-accurate predictions, if only in hindsight.  Regarding shorter attention spans, etc., see the 1951 novella by Cyril M. Kornbluth titled "The Marching Morons" (remembering the terminology in common use in that period that did not intend insult).  Or see the summary in Wikipedia at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons

 

 

Peter Zavon, CIH
Penfield, NY

PZAVON**At_Symbol_Here**Rochester.rr.com

 

 

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU> On Behalf Of Monona Rossol
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 5:22 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] water based paint seminar

 

Jack, Let me see if I can explain without further antagonizing you.  I certainly appreciate the struggles you have had with your disorder, but no intent to insult was present.  Instead, the point I was attempting to make was that the attention span of audiences is now exceedingly short, and that fact is well-documented in a multitude of studies. It also is well-known that the average intelligence of the US audience is now assumed to be about age 12 for the purposes of the entertainment industry in which I work.

 

And since I started performing at age 3, I have more than 80 years of personal observation of this shortening of attention and lowering of the intellectual level.  As you may have heard, I am still quite good at holding an audience's attention, but I do it differently now than in the past. And I immediately look at the average age of my audience to adjust my level of communication.

 

When I was entering the safety field in the 1970s, the US had the best occupational safety regulations, the best educational institutions, and we lived longer and had better medical statistics than many other countries.  None of these things are true anymore.  We let this happen.  And most US citizens still think we are leaders because they can't or won't read the statistics. 

 

You attribute this to just a harmless "evolution in how people consume information."  I vigorously disagree.  It is a change that seriously limits the amount of information that most people can absorb and retain and the length of time they will spend trying to attain it.

 

That doesn't mean there are no brilliant young people with the drive to dig deeply into their fields of interest.  If you are one of them, you have overcome both your disorder and your educational environment. Kudos.

 

But the majority of people have dumbed down their intellects to a point I consider dangerous. Our democracy is now at risk because most people cannot follow the details of the events that are occurring in politics and in the environment.  Instead, they support whoever presents a view that makes them feel good. 

 

In case you haven't noticed, we are in big trouble here.

 

Monona

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Reidy <jreidy2**At_Symbol_Here**STANFORD.EDU>
To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Sent: Fri, Jan 10, 2020 11:31 am
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] water based paint seminar

Monona,

 

I would like to respectfully recommend avoiding generalizations about "this future generation" and "attention deficit." As someone who is both a member of the younger generation and has been diagnosed with ADHD since the age of 6, I believe that many tend to fall into misconceptions about both groups. Attention deficit disorders are much more than being unable to sit still or having trouble paying attention to a lecture. For example, the aspect of ADHD that affects me most in my adult life is the effect it has on executive function (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0890856709620402). This effect is the difference between procrastinating because you don't want to do something, which many people experience, and being unable to start an activity that you look forward to (like reading a book or even watching TV) because for whatever reason you just can't quite get yourself to start no matter how much you want to dive in. For others it can be a hyper-reaction to any sort of rejection or criticism (https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1087054706288106). It's a much more nuanced disorder than popular media has led many, including myself, to believe; many of these aspects are things I've only learned about in the last year or two, despite being diagnosed for over 75% of my life.

 

As for how younger generations consume information and their media habits, I would put forward that this may just be another evolution of how people consume information. Within the last 150 years we have gone from only having print media and oral communication, to having radio, to having television, to having the Internet. Having the Internet in a portable device is really less than 15 years old. Our ability to transfer knowledge has adapted with each new invention so far. I don't disagree that in-person training provides opportunities that pre-recorded videos do not, or that written word affords a degree of refinement that is otherwise difficult to achieve. But new modes of communication also offer new advantages. An in-person presentation is a fixed point in time; if someone misses it, that's it, they miss it until it's offered again (if it's offered again). But with recordings they can still see something, and I believe that some level of learning is better than none at all. Video allows visual demonstration of complex tasks that are difficult to describe in writing. From experience, I can say that it is much easier to understand how to use a Schlenk line from a visual demonstration of it than from trying to read even a very well-written 20 page guide. And all this assumes that current generations prefer digital to hands-on. Obviously my own experience is only anecdotal, but I can say that when I give hands-on trainings, I have a much easier time getting undergraduates to engage with me and my material than I do postdocs!

 

This ended up being longer than I intended, so all this is to say that I think writing off a generation as a lost cause might be premature, and while there may be challenges, there are at least as many new opportunities.

 

Sincerely,

 

Jack Reidy (he/him)

Research Safety Specialist

Environmental Health & Safety

Stanford University

484 Oak Road, Stanford, CA, 94305

Tel: (650) 497-7614

 

 

 

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU> On Behalf Of Monona Rossol
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 7:46 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] water based paint seminar

 

Something Monique said really bothered me:

I say video because I
cannot see my son's generation searching archives to read anything
because they prefer to watch things.

And this is why I also despair of this future generation.  It is science-lite to watch those videos and take those on-line trainings. 

 

I've done pod casts, had lectures videoed, and developed the slides and tests for on-line training.  I feel badly after seeing or hearing every one because I know I had to skip along on the mountain tops and never get down in the dark valleys between the peaks.  And without out understanding the entire terrain, the audience leaves elated by a false impression that they understand what I've said.  Instead, they know what I've concluded, but have no clue about the process used to reach those conclusions.

 

In contrast, the written word exists without the distraction of the performance.  It can be more thoughtfully and accurately composed to avoid any misunderstanding.  It can take the time and words to explain the thought processes and concepts that factor into the conclusions.   

 

The only person I ever saw who got both the performance and the full story together was a very old professor in the 1950s who taught basic organic chemistry.  I only remember him by the name we all called him which was Pappy Klein.  He would teach each reaction by the steps various researchers took to figure out the principles, even going down some of the blind alleys that had to be abandoned.  So we saw the process.  And he would delay the final reaction products just a nano-second too long so that almost all of us could make that final leap just before he showed it.  And now, we owned it.

 

Now THAT was performance-teaching.  No big grins, flashy demos, or cheer-leading.  Instead, a  ballet for the mind.  

 

It won't work today. The young are now lost to us. Attention deficit is the new norm.

 

Monona

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Ellison <Mark**At_Symbol_Here**TANKTRAILERCLEANING.COM>
To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Sent: Fri, Jan 10, 2020 9:30 am
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] water based paint seminar

I would second that emotion.  The wealth of knowledge here is just incredible.

 

Mark Ellison

 

 

 

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU> On Behalf Of Monona Rossol
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2020 6:04 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] water based paint seminar

 

Well, there are 6 YouTubes of clips from my Vaudeville act.  It's just a matter of bringing in a film crew.   I do have some heavy grant money I'm not sure what to do with.  Maybe.......  I'll think on it.

 

Monona

-----Original Message-----
From: Monique Wilhelm <mwilhelm**At_Symbol_Here**UMICH.EDU>
To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Sent: Thu, Jan 9, 2020 5:24 pm
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] water based paint seminar

Monona,

You need to record all of your talks and start a YouTube channel?

In fact, many of you with such deep safety knowledge and experience
need to do this before you retire.  PLEASE!!!  I say video because I
cannot see my son's generation searching archives to read anything
because they prefer to watch things.

Best,

Monique

_________________________________________________________

Monique Wilhelm, M.S., NRCC Certified CHO

ACS CHAS Secretary|2017 CERM E. Ann Nalley Award Recipient

Laboratory Manager|Adjunct Lecturer|Chemistry Club Advisor

Department of Chemistry & Biochemistry|University of Michigan-Flint




Monique

_________________________________________________________

Monique Wilhelm, M.S., NRCC Certified CHO

ACS CHAS Secretary|2017 CERM E. Ann Nalley Award Recipient

Laboratory Manager|Adjunct Lecturer|Chemistry Club Advisor

Department of Chemistry & Biochemistry|University of Michigan-Flint






On Fri, Nov 29, 2019 at 3:34 PM DCHAS Membership Chair
<membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org> wrote:
>
> From: Monona Rossol <actsnyc**At_Symbol_Here**cs.com>
> Re: water based paint seminar
>
> In case anyone is hanging in the NYC area on December 5, from 10 am to 1 pm, I'm doing a NYCOSH seminar on water-based commercial wall paint hazards that has a lot of chemistry in it.  You are welcome.  You can register until December 3  at eventbrite: https://bit.ly/2NR740m or call Dwan at 212-227-6440 x10
>
> Or you can just show up with a story, you lie, and I'll swear to it.  There's coffee and.
>
> Monona
>
> ---
> For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org
> Follow us on Twitter **At_Symbol_Here**acsdchas



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