From: Alan Hall <oldeddoc**At_Symbol_Here**GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Arsenic in CCA wood
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 10:13:00 -0600
Reply-To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Message-ID: CALDugaZntVvN8HcuzdzGt2pM7Y4kAgMMAU7rMpbnXsJ_tB0U4Q**At_Symbol_Here**mail.gmail.com
In-Reply-To <1771238220.19069339.1579873114840**At_Symbol_Here**mail.yahoo.com>


Dear Dan and DCHAS,

I fought this one out a long time ago.

It got so crazy ("Urban Legend" that children's playsets and picnic tables at rest areas in various parts of the country were causing Children's cancers..

Now, trivalent arsenic (As+3) is a carcinogen. However all cancers are certainly not the same. Some wouldn't believe for years, because an applicable animal study model couldn't be found. As5+ (pentavalent arsenic) is likely not

But everything I reviewed (which was extensive) did not convince me that sliding down the slide on a playset or swinging on a wooden seat on s swing or stopping for a picnic lunch at a roadside picnic table posed any risk of cancer. The whole country sort of went ape-droppings bananas.. Naturally, it started in California. But the state of Ohio closed all their picnic areas. The TV show 80-minutes got involved. It was totally insane.

At any rate, no wood treated with chromated-copper-arsenate has been banned from sale for years.


I don't think it is an issue. Even the occupation epidemiologic studies of the workers who made the stuff did not find a conclusive risk of getting the particular types of human cancer associated with trivalent arsenic poisoning. In fact, a trivalent arsenic compound call Trisenox(R) used be used therapeutically to treat a rare for of Leukemia. And no less a great physician and educator, Sir William Osler of the Johns Hopkins, used it for a variety of reason which I would not condone today.

The father of toxicology, Paracelsus (his real was far to long) studied extensively the benefits and risks of using arsenic and antimony in patients and concluded (paraphrased of course from the Latin) "The difference between a cure and a poison is the dose."

So I think your fellows concerns are groundless in data.

And anybody hasn't read the book by Edith Effron called "The Apocaslytics" and Ayn Rands "Atlas Shrugged" would further their education.

Let me know if I can be of any assistance.

Alan H. Hall, M.D.
Medical Toxicologist

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 7:42 AM Monona Rossol <0000030664c37427-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**lists.princeton.edu> wrote:
If I wasn't in such a time crunch, I could be more helpful. But what I suggest is going to the prerule Federal Register discussions for the Arsenic standard and there would be studies specifically related to occupational exposure there on which the rule is based. And I believe there is proposed regulation specific to the wood preservatives and there should be some references there to good studies.

These memories are from the days when I got the FR in hard copy every day. I now search the site on line. It's still the best source for this kind of information in my view.

Since I take inquiries every day from the general public and have for 40 years, I'll also provide a bit of advice. The first things you want to identify for yourself is why the person wants to know, and what you can read between the lines is the opinion that person actually hopes to hear from you. They all have a motive. Sometimes that either helps you in your search or it short circuits the work because you can find another way to get to the heart of the inquiry.

I say this because it is odd they are looking for occupational exposure during "use" and exposure of children to what? Items made with the wood? To the dust from cutting the wood at home? Is this person a contractor being sued for installing this stuff or a householder looking to sue a contractor? What?

Life is short. Find the short cuts. Monona


-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Kuespert <0000057d3b6cd9b7-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**LISTS..PRINCETON.EDU>
To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Sent: Fri, Jan 24, 2020 6:14 am
Subject: [DCHAS-L] Arsenic in CCA wood

I've had a bunch of questions from a member of the public referred to me regarding arsenic exposure from chromated copper arsenic-treated wood. A brief literature search showed me that there's quite a bit of data and zillions of papers out there, but much of it is not quite what I'm looking for.

Is anyone aware of a good reference, preferably a review, that discusses CCA wood exposure hazards, particularly routes of exposure and toxicokinetics in both occupational use and in children? It would help short-circuit my lit search considerably.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Dan

Daniel Reid Kuespert, PhD, CSP
11101 Wood Elves Way
Columbia, MD 21044
410-992-9709

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