From: "Brown, Kimberly Jean" <kimibush**At_Symbol_Here**EHRS.UPENN.EDU>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] [EXTERNAL] [DCHAS-L] Wearing cloth mask in the lab
Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 19:18:44 +0000
Reply-To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Message-ID: BL0PR10MB281900051CF6B3D40D5360C1E8A50**At_Symbol_Here**BL0PR10MB2819.namprd10.prod.outlook.com
In-Reply-To


Martin:

We're having that discussion right now, in fact!

Nothing has been finalized, but here is a summary of what we're considering:


Kimi Brown, CHO, CSP

(she, her, hers)

Sr. Lab Safety Specialist/Chemical Hygiene Officer

215-746-6549 (Office)

215-651-0557 (Mobile/text)


EHRS is continuing to provide essential services with limited on-campus staff.  Those of us who are not on campus are working remotely to continue much of our normal operations.

Environmental Health and Radiation Safety

University of Pennsylvania

3160 Chestnut St., Suite 400

Philadelphia, PA 19104-6287



From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU> on behalf of Bell,Martin <mwb32**At_Symbol_Here**DREXEL.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 2:53 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] [EXTERNAL] [DCHAS-L] Wearing cloth mask in the lab
 

We have been thinking about using face shields instead of face coverings. The face covering in opinion would create other issues. Is anyone else thinking about this control instead of face coverings?

 

 

Maritn

 

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU> on behalf of Patrick A Ceas <00001218cb57e854-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**LISTS.PRINCETON.EDU>
Reply-To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Date: Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 1:03 PM
To: "DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU" <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] [EXTERNAL] [DCHAS-L] Wearing cloth mask in the lab

 

External.

Anna et al.,

 

For PPE for healthcare professionals, when no facemasks are available, the CDC says to use a face shield that covers the entire front (i.e., extends to the chin or below) and sides of the face.  The CDC further states that if a cloth/homemade face mask is used then ideally the face shield will also still be used.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/ppe-strategy/face-masks.html  (scroll down to "When No Facemasks Are Available") 

 

Could we use this guidance to turn things around and then interpret this to mean that using a "full" face shield provides a better source barrier than using only a cloth mask and, therefore, it would be better for lab personnel to wear a full face shield instead of only a cloth mask?  

 

If so, then wearing a face shield as a source barrier could eliminate the risk of breathing difficulties that Ralph Froehlich mentioned; and a face shield should(?) be easier to clean & disinfect and also may not present the interference with verbal clear communication that Ralph Stuart mentioned with cloth masks (of course, using both a face shield and cloth mask would seem to provide a better source barrier than using only a face shield).   And if a lab worker is to use a face shield as a source barrier, then they of course still need to wear chemical splash goggles whenever the hazard assessment dictates.

 

Thoughts?

 

Pat 

 

 

On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 12:21 PM Anna Sitek <asitek1**At_Symbol_Here**umn.edu> wrote:

Bumping this request for feedback on the use of cloth masks in laboratory spaces. Please limit the replies to best practices for laboratory use of cloth masks and not whether public use is or isn't justified.

 

My personal opinion is that a lab is very different from a public space and deserves additional consideration. The ventilation is better but there are also additional hazards which probably present a more likely exposure and risk than an asymptomatic labmate.

 

FYI - OSHA released a guidance document on preparing workplaces for COVID19 https://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3990.pdf

 

Thought provoking questions

 

OSHA says surgical masks are a physical barrier. Physical barriers are considered engineering controls. A face shield is also a barrier but it's considered PPE. Is it considered PPE because the individual has to wear it and provides them protection as  opposed to a source barrier? If a cloth mask is a physical barrier providing source isolation where does it rank in effectiveness? Is it an engineering control, PPE or something less effective than PPE?

 

OSHA's enforcement guidance says cloth masks are not ppe. emphasis added. 

Using homemade masks or improvised mouth and nose covers only, as a last resort (i.e., when no respirators or facemasks are available).  Improvised masks are not personal protective equipment and, ideally, should be used with a face shield to cover the front and sides of the face.  When this measure is the only resort, refer to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) guidance at www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/ppe-strategy/face-masks.html.  

 

For those of you whose institutions have decided to require cloth masks in lab spaces what best practices are you recommending? 

  • Do you require different masks in lab vs home areas? 
  • How are you discouraging the mask from becoming contaminated by other lab hazards? e.g. adjusting while wearing contaminated gloves. Are you encouraging people to change them frequently? 

If you are not using masks in the labs are you discouraging talking as another means of source control? See  https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-38808-z

    • speaking (as exemplified by counting aloud) releases about 2-10 times as many total particles as a single cough  
    • droplet nuclei generated by singing is 6 times more than that emitted during normal talking and approximately equivalent to that released by coughing 
    • counting aloud for 10 seconds followed by 10 seconds of breathing, repeated over two minutes, releases half as many particles as 30 seconds of continual coughing, which in turn releases half as many particles as saying "aah" for 30 seconds. 

On an encouraging note, this recent NEJM letter showed an impressive reduction of particles generated during speech while wearing a damp cloth cover in a video clip.  Thoughts on why a damp mask was used? Would a dry cover have had the same result?

  

Or are cloth masks in a lab no big deal and now just a part of our standard attire like a shirt?

 

It would be helpful if AIHA or ACS could release a statement on the use of cloth masks in laboratories.

 

Looking forward to your comments,

Anna

 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:16 PM LaCroix, Steve (DOH) <Steve.LaCroix**At_Symbol_Here**doh.wa.gov> wrote:

                ÉÉtouche´

 

Steve

 

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety [mailto:DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU] On Behalf Of Monona Rossol
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 9:53 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] [EXTERNAL] [DCHAS-L] Wearing cloth mask in the lab

 

Of course they don't stop the aerosol. Can't imagine anyone with brains would think a piece of cloth could do this.  If it could, we could dump NIOSH certification and buy babushkas.   Instead, the DIY masks: 

 

1)  reduce exposure of others round you to the big stuff you generate.

2)  keep most of the big droplets from landing on surfaces to contaminate others, 

3)  help remind you, or even prevent you, from touching your nose and mouth, 

4)  provide a feeling you and those around you are at least doing something, and 

5)  remind you to stay the hell away from others by 6 feet or more.

 

The countries that wear masks do better in the numbers game.  And it is not from the efficacy of the mask to capture the aerosol.  

Monona

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Frazier, Alicia S <ASFrazier**At_Symbol_Here**MARATHONPETROLEUM.COM>
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Sent: Tue, May 5, 2020 11:42 am
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] [EXTERNAL] [DCHAS-L] Wearing cloth mask in the lab

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 


From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU> on behalf of Yamaira Gonzalez <000003a8c5269e98-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**LISTS.PRINCETON.EDU>
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 8:31:32 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [DCHAS-L] Wearing cloth mask in the lab

 

Good morning,

 

What is the latest about wearing cloth mask while doing lab work? Does anyone know of a good article? Pros and cons.

 

Regards,  yamy

 

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 9:27 AM, Stuart, Ralph

> In fact, just compiling a list of coronavirus-related issues that should be addressed  would be valuable. 

I'll throw one in: An issue I am concerned about in regard to reopening any public area is the cloth mask protocol. Cloth masks are community health measures rather than personal safety measures, so I would be reluctant to impose OSHA style expectations on the use of cloth masks by the public. On the other hand, I can imagine that these masks are likely to become reservoirs for many contaminants beyond the Covid virus.

I think that we face a major challenge in maintaining the quality of the cloth masks if we ask people to wear them in public areas while relying on the wearers to maintain them. I suspect that professional laundry services will be required to assure co-workers and the community that the masks are being appropriately cleaned.

A related question is: Are labs public areas? Few academic labs I have seen have security protocols that control who enters them and it will take a significant change in both protocol and culture in change this situation.

Thanks for asking an interesting question.

- Ralph


Ralph Stuart, CIH, CCHO
Environmental Safety Manager
Keene State College
603 358-2859

ralph.stuart**At_Symbol_Here**keene.edu



---
For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org
Follow us on Twitter **At_Symbol_Here**acsdchas

--- For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org Follow us on Twitter **At_Symbol_Here**acsdchas

--- For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org Follow us on Twitter **At_Symbol_Here**acsdchas

--- For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org Follow us on Twitter **At_Symbol_Here**acsdchas

--- For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org Follow us on Twitter **At_Symbol_Here**acsdchas


 

--

Anna Sitek, CSP, CCHO

Research Safety Professional- College of Science & Engineering

Department of Environmental Health and Safety

University of Minnesota- TCEM

Lab Safety Resources www.z.umn.edu/labsafe

Joint Safety Team www.jst.umn.edu

--- For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org Follow us on Twitter **At_Symbol_Here**acsdchas


 

--

Patrick Ceas, Ph.D.

Chemical Hygiene Officer | Environmental Health & Safety

Office: 507-786-3560 | Mobile: 507-321-0379

312 Regents Hall of Natural Sciences

1520 St. Olaf Avenue Northfield, MN 55057

--- For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org Follow us on Twitter **At_Symbol_Here**acsdchas

--- For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org Follow us on Twitter **At_Symbol_Here**acsdchas

Previous post   |  Top of Page   |   Next post



The content of this page reflects the personal opinion(s) of the author(s) only, not the American Chemical Society, ILPI, Safety Emporium, or any other party. Use of any information on this page is at the reader's own risk. Unauthorized reproduction of these materials is prohibited. Send questions/comments about the archive to secretary@dchas.org.
The maintenance and hosting of the DCHAS-L archive is provided through the generous support of Safety Emporium.