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Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Beacon HS student burned in botched chemistry experiment awarded nearly $60M

Date: Jul 4, 2019 01:52 UTC

Author: Monona Rossol <0000030664c37427-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**LISTS.PRINCETON.EDU>

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Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Beacon HS student burned in botched chemistry experiment awarded nearly $60M

Date: Jul 4, 2019 03:18 UTC

Author: Peter Zavon <pzavon**At_Symbol_Here**rochester.rr.com>

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From: Monona Rossol <0000030664c37427-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**LISTS.PRINCETON.EDU>

Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Beacon HS student burned in botched chemistry experiment awarded nearly $60M

Date: Jul 4, 2019 02:01 UTC

Reply-To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety

In-Reply-To: Re: [DCHAS-L] Beacon HS student burned in botched chemistry experiment awarded nearly $60M

Demystify: 

Well said, and that is a valid worry in NYC.  The Board's CYA impetus is going to damage the curriculum unless we can show that industry requires science grads who can function in a laboratory situation.  College's have become high level trade schools. If they don't provide the skills needed on the job, their objective is not met.  So there is leverage there if we want to use it.

Monona


-----Original Message-----
From: L M <000007c76f0b70ae-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**LISTS.PRINCETON.EDU>
To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Sent: Wed, Jul 3, 2019 8:15 pm
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Beacon HS student burned in botched chemistry experiment awarded nearly $60M

As a retired Chemistry teacher and former Laboratory Specialist, who was once on the United Federation of Teachers Health and Safety Committee, I have been following this case since the incident occurred. 

Before I retired, annual safety training was required by NY State law. However, my experience was that it was very seldom provided and often in only a perfunctory manner. This apparently allowed some supervisors to check off their compliance statement.

I have read Monona's writings for years and must agree with most of her assessment. 
Unfortunately, the observation that school boards are mostly involved with money is too true.
I am concerned that instead of providing the investment in safety training for science teachers and all who are in contact with hazardous materials on the job, the outcome in many cases will be to avoid financial risks by elimination of access to hands on experience.

Doing laboratory science teaching safely is expensive compared to other subject areas.  Too many administrators in my experience have little or no understanding of the value to our students of real hands on experience.  We must be alert and continue to press for proper support.

Lew Malchick
bt_quant**At_Symbol_Here**yahoo.com


On Wednesday, July 3, 2019, 05:29:36 PM EDT, paracelcusbombastusvon**At_Symbol_Here**juno.com <paracelcusbombastusvon**At_Symbol_Here**JUNO.COM> wrote:


To begin I am not defending the BoE in any way. 
 
But as I read the account and numerous responses I thought I would take a look at the makeup and background of my local school board.  There are nine members whom are elected from various sub-districts.  Two had degrees in education and experience in general education one who has a PhD in education.  Three had degrees in social science or social work experience.  One is a prosecuting attorney.  One is an accountant (CPA). And one works as a business human resources/public relations.  The last did not list a biography. 
 
None had any science/safety experience noted in their bios. 
 
Most expressed concerns in "getting along with each other" and addressing "differences".
 
So much for STEM and safety.
 
Lynn Knudtson
 
 


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Monona Rossol <0000030664c37427-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**LISTS.PRINCETON.EDU>
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Beacon HS student burned in botched chemistry experiment awarded nearly $60M
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 04:32:51 +0000

And your answer would be to allow people like this young man to be uncompensated and the Board to continue to ignore there responsibility to train teachers for their jobs?  
 
Sorry, but without public trials to point out their gross negligence, Boards of Education wouldn't have any impetus to do anything about this typical lack of training.
 
I was given the Karen Silkwood award June 18th by the New York Committee on Occupational Safety And Health.  I was expected to give a speech at which, as usual, I would be funny and gracious to all the union representatives and other members of NYCOSH.  Instead, I bit the hand that fed me and brought up this trial that had opened on June 10th only a few blocks North of the United Teachers Federation building where the Gala was located.  
 
What I said was that age 83, this would probably be the last time I would be speaking to this many union ganseh machers (big doers) at one time and I was not about to let the opportunity go easily. I implored the union teachers organizations to stop supporting the teachers who don't want to "waste their time" in OSHA training. Instead, I want this mandatory training restored and the training improved to insure that OSHA required Lab Standard and Hazcom include real and practical information that is site-specific to the conditions in the school and to how to teach safely. 
The objective should be to train teachers to provide the students with the education they REALLY NEED.  For example, let's insure that no high school student, most of whom already have have jobs, can graduate without knowing their rights on the job -- rights to be trained and safe under the OSHA regulations.   By including these facts, a civics course could actually be relevant to a student's need when teaching about US laws and history.
 
And no college student should EVER be given a degree that implies they are now ready to practice in the sciences or the arts because they don't know a single law or regulation that applies to that work, or how to do it safely and legally.   And that goes double for the schools that teach teachers to teach those courses!
 
Right now, lawsuits are the only tool in the box to make this happen.  If we could find a better one that would still compensate the injured and punish the guilty, that would be fine.  But hurting those in charge of education financially and making the public aware of the lousy teacher training in schools is at least a start.  And the real message of this trial should be that the negligence established is not limited to the Beacon School, it is national, pervasive and insidious.  
 
What we need to do in concert here is to point out to the public precisely what you have stated below in your email:  that without hand-on laboratory experience, you are not graduating real chemists who can contribute to science in the real world.  Tell Boards of education that they are not allowed to simply remove vitally important courses from the curriculum because they require an investment in training of teachers and insuring that classrooms are designed and equipped to support the curriculum.  
 
And that's what the Boards have been doing for decades now, until most schools don't have a single properly appointed laboratory or science classroom, art room, or theater shop. I really KNOW this is true because I work on building planning jobs and do OSHA compliance inspection and training of schools all over the US.  Most of the new schools are not equipped for science, art or theater training.  And the old ones are a disaster.
 
The school buildings all over the United States, stand as mute evidence that Boards of Education don't give a damn about real education and the safety of their students.  And the majority of the teachers in those school so untrained that they are a danger to themselves and others.
 
Monona

-----Original Message-----
From: Dorothy Holley <dtholley**At_Symbol_Here**NCSU.EDU>
To: DCHAS-L <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**PRINCETON.EDU>
Sent: Tue, Jul 2, 2019 3:42 pm
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Beacon HS student burned in botched chemistry experiment awarded nearly $60M

I am a science teacher, too.  I'm not sure that large settlements will encourage school boards to provide safety training.  It is my experience that school boards are in the business of "spending" money.... football stadiums, technology, things that get noticed and look good.  Our students already are encouraged to take online classes with online labs (no potential dangers there, right?).  I have not had a budget in the last 3 years to purchase supplies, much less be trained.  And yes, I teach in a right to work state with no collective bargaining power.  Beacon High is in a state with unions.  
 
Let's focus on quality teaching and learning.  As chemists we understand the importance of hands on labs and demonstrations, and that they be done safely, to learn chemistry.  There are no short cuts.  Large payouts from a BOE won't be a short cut to ensuring safety training.  Chemists speaking up to schools, administrations, and districts demanding students graduate with hands on lab experience and a working knowledge of chemistry will go farther for the cause of science literacy. 

On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 1:38 PM Mary Shane <space7051**At_Symbol_Here**gmail.com> wrote:
Being a high school science teacher, I can say there is no safety training done in my district. I think there should be mandatory training each year.  I also agree there should be a safety course required for all science teachers as part of there education in college. There should also be a course for those who will teach elementary school.  I take safety seriously and accept the ribbing from my peers. I will be doing Flinn Scientific 's safety course this summer. 

On Tue, Jul 2, 2019, 10:03 AM Yaritza Brinker <YBrinker**At_Symbol_Here**fele.com> wrote:
It may be different in your area, but where I live the school board=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=84=A2s job is comparable to a CEO=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=84=A2s job=C3=A2=E2=82=AC =A6 raise funds, approve building improvements, and approve high level policy changes. Much like a CEO, the board doesn=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=84=A2t know who needs training nor what kind of training. The board assumes the superintendent and principals are providing adequate training for the teachers.
 
To make things worse, there is a false notion amongst the public (principals included) that a degree in science implies knowledge of experiment safety. Hence, the importance of teaching safety at the college level. In my opinion, laboratory safety should be a required course for both science students and science teachers.
 
Thank you,
 
Yaritza Brinker
260.827.5402