“A hand drench unit which also functions as an eyewash . . .”

 

It seems to me that a hand drench unit cannot function as an eyewash because an eyewash must be able to be used without either hand to keep it going or to keep it aimed correctly.  Someone using an eyewash needs to be able to use both hands to hold the eyelids open against strong reflex.

Peter Zavon, MS, CIH
Penfield, NY

PZAVON**At_Symbol_Here**Rochester.rr.com

 

 

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU> On Behalf Of Richard Palluzi
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2022 12:25 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] [Safety3] [NAOSMM] Re: [DCHAS-L] How to Use a Fire Blanket – 9 Simple Steps

 

Putting out a fire on a person’s clothing is always problematical at best.

 

Most people – the author included – are just as likely to panic as remember their training.  As an old instructor once told me “stop, drop and roll” should really be “stop them, drop them, and roll them” because of this. Getting someone trained and willing to drop someone on fire (because they are panicking and not listening) is very hard. We worry we might hurt them and the potential consequences if we do. Sad to say but if the thought “might I be liable if they get hurt because I pushed them down?” does not cross your mind you must have just emerged from living in a bomb shelter since the 50’s. And even a minute or two of hesitation can make the injury a lot worse.

 

The best mitigation is, of course, preventing the fire in the first place.  For that the hazard analysis and risk identification requirements suggested in NFPA 45 are very useful. Provide a detailed assessment before you do anything. Provide appropriate protective equipment. Put high temperature shut downs on any heated equipment.

 

Fire resistant lab coats are another good mitigative measure.

 

A hand drench unit which also functions as an eyewash is very useful as you can try and get the person near the unit and use it to drench the fire. A safety shower is another excellent measure but getting someone under one when they are panicked is also not the easiest. Plus all the other issues with using a safety shower properly.

 

My thoughts for what they are worth.

 

Richard Palluzi

BE(ChE), ME(ChE), PE, CSP,FAIChE

 

Pilot plant and laboratory consulting, safety, design, reviews, and training

www.linkedin.com/in/richardppalluzillc/

www.pilotplants.us

 

Richard P Palluzi LLC

72 Summit Drive

Basking Ridge, NJ 07920

rpalluzi**At_Symbol_Here**verizon.net

908-285-3782

 

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU> On Behalf Of Paul Burnett
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2022 11:20 AM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] [Safety3] [NAOSMM] Re: [DCHAS-L] How to Use a Fire Blanket – 9 Simple Steps

 

Newly manufactured fire blankets have not contained asbestos for decades.

 

https://www.asbestosclaims.law/asbestos-blog/asbestos-lined-fire-blankets-what-are-they-and-are-they-safe-to-use/#:~:text=Asbestos%20is%20Banned%20and%20Alternative,projects%20and%20in%20consumer%20products.

 

And how long does it take to do “Stop, drop and roll” training?

Paul**At_Symbol_Here**PaulBurnett.com - Sent from my iPhone 11

 

On Nov 10, 2022, at 7:16 AM, Lowell Kellogg <kelloggl**At_Symbol_Here**matc.edu> wrote:



Our college's insurance provider has recommended that we get rid of the fire blankets due to inadequate training (chimney effect) but more so due to the fact that many fire blankets contain asbestos.  Without dates of manufacture on the blankets, it's difficult to determine whether the blankets contain asbestos or not. 

Lowell

 

On Wed, Nov 9, 2022 at 2:02 PM James Kaufman <jkaufman**At_Symbol_Here**labsafetyinstitute.org> wrote:

Don't get rid of your fire blanket.  Just don't wrap yourself in to put out the fire.  And, change the directions on those older, long, vertical, fire blanket cabinets that instructed you to do just that.

 

As mentioned ... the chimney effect.  In addition, it traps the heat and increases the chance of greater burns.

 

Fire blankets can be used for ...

 

1. A temporary stretcher

 

2. Keeping warm and covering up after using the safety shower

 

3. Someone else using it on you while you are doing stop, drop, and roll

 

4. Keeping warm to prevent shock

 

5. A pillow

 

6. A temporary modesty curtain for the safety shower with two colleagues holding the ends

 

7. The department picnic  ... Jim

 

PS.  LSI now has virtual lab inspections, safety program evaluations, document reviews, plus courses and seminars ... all virtual.  And, a complimentary,  updated version of our classic Laboratory Safety Guidelines is now available on our website ... https://www.labsafety.org/product/lab-safety-rules

 

James A. Kaufman, PhD

Founder/President Emeritus

 

The Laboratory Safety Institute (LSI)

A Non-profit Educational Organization

  for Safety in Science, Industry, and Education

192 Worcester Street, Natick, MA 01760-2252

(O) 508-647-1900   (F) 508-647-0062   (C) 508-574-6264  

Skype: labsafe; 508-401-7406  jkaufman**At_Symbol_Here**labsafety.org  www.labsafety.org 

 

Teach, Learn, and Practice Science Safely

 

 

 

 

On Wed, Nov 9, 2022 at 2:36 PM <pzavon**At_Symbol_Here**rochester.rr.com> wrote:

If your clothing is on fire and you are wrapped in a blanket while standing, you are likely to become a chimney drawing air in at the bottom and pushing the fire higher on the body.

 

In response to Ralph’s observations, I would note that the article is clear in several places that it is recommending actions be done by “trained people” so this is not about use by  the untrained.  Of course, it also ignores the problem of applying a9-step process in the midst of a crisis

 

And I would agree with Richard’s observation that most organizations have removed fire blankets entirely, generally in favor of “stop, drop, and roll” as easier to communicate to the otherwise untrained, and rather effective and also avoiding the chimney problem.

Peter Zavon
Penfield, NY

PZAVON**At_Symbol_Here**Rochester.rr.com

 

 

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU> On Behalf Of Jessica Martin
Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2022 1:41 PM
To: DCHAS-L@PrincetonEDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] How to Use a Fire Blanket – 9 Simple Steps

 

Hm. When attempting to use a fire blanket to put out a fire on a person, I was instructed to have them “stop, drop, and roll” first, then to try to smother the fire with the blanket. I seem to recall that if you try to wrap a person in a fire blanket while they are standing (and on fire) that this actually causes other scarier problems. This is sort of a fuzzy memory now from a conversation had years ago with someone from a fire department, so I welcome folks to either fill in the blanks or correct it.

 

Best,

Jessica A. Martin, Ph.D.

NSF Graduate Research Fellow (2018-2021)

Joint Safety Team, Founding Member (2018-2021)

Pinkhassik Group, Department of Chemistry (2016-2021)

University of Connecticut

323-327-3974

jessica.a.martin**At_Symbol_Here**uconn.edu

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessicaannemartin/

 

ACS CHAS PEER-LED WORKSHOPS

The Workshop ACS CHAS RAMP in the Research Lab is being held next on November 13, 2022!
Follow this link for more information and to register: https://rampintheresearchlab.eventbrite.com

The Workshop ACS CHAS Empowering Academic Researchers to Strengthen Safety Culture is being held next on March 5, 2023!
Follow this link for more information and to register: https://LSTWorkshopMarch2023.eventbrite.com

 

On Nov 9, 2022, at 12:54 PM, CHAS membership <membership**At_Symbol_Here**DCHAS.ORG> wrote:

 

*Message sent from a system outside of UConn.*


In follow up to last week’s discussion about use of fire extinguishers in labs, this article caught my eye:
How to Use a Fire Blanket – 9 Simple Steps
at https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffirefightergarage.com%2Fhow-to-use-a-fire-blanket%2F&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7C5a632c9d2d8c4e58931908dac27bcaa9%7C17f1a87e2a254eaab9df9d439034b080%7C0%7C0%7C638036134181522702%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=5XUvmvq0Ox%2B7FCTrc2Xt9uCTi5vIBYN9SZLxR216COk%3D&amp;reserved=0

No matter how simple the steps, I’m not sure that a nine step process is reliable for people who are doing it for the first time...

- Ralph

Ralph Stuart, CIH, CCHO
Membership Chair
American Chemical Society Division of Chemical Health and Safety
membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org

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