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Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Legacy chemicals and old MSDSs

Date: Jun 6, 2025 16:25 UTC

Author: Info <info**At_Symbol_Here**ILPI.COM>

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Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Legacy chemicals and old MSDSs

Date: Jun 6, 2025 17:05 UTC

Author: Monona Rossol <0000030664c37427-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**LISTS.PRINCETON.EDU>

From: Alex Hagen <fischera**At_Symbol_Here**UW.EDU>

Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Legacy chemicals and old MSDSs

Date: Jun 6, 2025 16:37 UTC

Reply-To: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU>

Message-ID: <DM3PR08MB9587AD2287F35316C70614F4A36EA**At_Symbol_Here**DM3PR08MB9587.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>

In-Reply-To: <CAC4kuvsaPBDcWVmMwbHJqTPHDgZkrTjjZtJ9ST50BJjhbBO0zQ**At_Symbol_Here**mail.gmail.com>

Demystify: 

Hi Corry,

 

Our institution has a chemical exchange program through our chemical inventory system. People can mark items as being available and then there is a list that others can visit to view what is up for grabs.

 

What we have found historically is: people are very willing to list their old chemicals on the exchange, because it feels like they are reducing waste and promoting sustainability; almost no one is willing to use chemicals offered on the exchange, because they worry about items being contaminated or too old.

 

With the current funding crisis our researchers are experiencing, I will be curious to see if this pattern changes at all.

 

Best regards,

ALEX HAGEN, CCHO

Laboratory Safety Program Manager, Chemical Hygiene Officer

University of Washington, Environmental Health & Safety Department

206.221.2339

 

From: ACS Division of Chemical Health and Safety <DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU> On Behalf Of Socorro Painter
Sent: Thursday, June 5, 2025 4:54 PM
To: DCHAS-L**At_Symbol_Here**Princeton.EDU
Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Legacy chemicals and old MSDSs

 

Hello Everyone, Legacy chemicals and chemical tracking were problems at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (LLNL) in the 1990's. Principal Investigators (PIs) lose their funding and have to close their labs. So the chemicals have to

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Hello Everyone,

Legacy chemicals and chemical tracking were problems at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (LLNL)  in the 1990's. Principal Investigators (PIs) lose their funding and have to close their labs. So the chemicals have to be disposed of as hazardous waste, unless the next PI using the lab accepts the previous PI chemicals. I am a retired employee of the Hazardous Waste Management Division (HWMD) and we did some innovative programs back then. First we started tracking all the chemicals called CHEMTRACK, from the time they arrived at the LLNL Receiving department to the time they were disposed of. Disposal can include actual waste disposal with a waste disposal company or taking the chemical to the Chemical Exchange Warehouse (ChEW). We have HWM technicians whose main job is to move chemicals from the PI lab to ChEW or from ChEW to the PI lab. MSDS are on the website so users can download them if they want to order chemicals from ChEW. Chemicals are also shown on the ChEW website so a PI can check if the chemical is available on ChEW before they buy them. Procurement has to be approved by a Hazardous waste analyst to make sure that we really don't have that chemical on ChEW or on CHEMTRACK. Sometimes they only need a few grams and they can easily borrow from the other PI. This also saves money!

We also instituted a waste minimization program so PIs don't order more than they need of any chemical. It would be nice if most schools and other institutions have a chemical exchange program so very little chemicals actually go to waste disposal. Another idea is to have a chemical exchange program in a smaller area like the San Francisco Bay Area. But this can involve more regulatory issues as the chemicals will be transported on the road outside the institution. In the future, some politicians may find a way to have a chemical exchange program in a small area where different institutions can bring or borrow chemicals. Perhaps they can be exempted from some regulations while being transported from the user to the Chemical exchange warehouse or  from the warehouse to the user.

I am also interested to know how many schools, government agencies have a chemical exchange program of their own.

 

Corry Painter

Blogger

www.hersciencejourney.com

 

 

On Thu, Jun 5, 2025 at 9:47AM Margaret Rakas <mrakas**At_Symbol_Here**smith.edu> wrote:

Because there is no money for hazwaste disposal....

 

On Thu, Jun 5, 2025 at 12:12PM Stephen Taylor <stephen**At_Symbol_Here**labsafetyinstitute.org> wrote:

It’s so interesting seeing this discussion while we are at our safer science summit. There pandemic with legacy chemicals in k-12 schools. 


Stephen Taylor, Ph.D.
Executive Director

The Laboratory Safety Institute

Stephen Taylor | LinkedIn

PS. Be sure to take our Safer Science Self-Assessment to see how your School or University stacks up!

 

 

On Thu, Jun 5, 2025 at 10:50AM Info <info**At_Symbol_Here**ilpi.com> wrote:

For questions 1 and 2 see the Compliance section of our SDS FAQ and the links therein: http://ilpi.com/msds/faq/partd.html 

 

4. Can I throw away old or outdated SDS’s?

 

5. Where can I find an SDS for an old chemical?

 

6. What if I need an SDS and the manufacturer no longer exists?

 

7. When does an SDS need to be revised or replaced?

 

12. What are the penalties for non-compliance with SDS requirements?

 

21. Are we protected from liability if someone is injured because an SDS supplied to us is wrong but we had no way of knowing about the error?

 

So old MSDS’s if you can’t obtain new ones are fine, but ones that are no longer used or have been deprecated by newer editions should generally be kept as part of the employee exposure record - in a different file, not with the current ones.

 

For question 3, I’m not an attorney but IMHO I don’t think manufacturers can simply disclaim liability just because emoting is old or even if the product has passed through multiple hands. My understanding is that most product liability disclaimers printed on a package are there simply to scare folks off from suing and significant number are not enforceable.

 

The bigger liability question is probably using products in the workplace which are old (and therefore subject to degradation and other situations that could create a hazard), may have unknown hazards, no support etc. Especially if new concerns or handling practices about the material or others similar to it have come to light in the intervening decades, information that won’t be found on the outdated final MSDS.

 

Keep up the fight, Monona!

 

Rob Toreki

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On Jun 3, 2025, at 2:26PM, Monona Rossol <0000030664c37427-dmarc-request**At_Symbol_Here**LISTS.PRINCETON.EDU> wrote:

 

I remember we had a long conversation some years ago about legacy chemicals,so hopefully there are still people on this forum who can give me some guidance on the following questions.

 

1.  Can OSHA cite an employer who has old MSDSs in their hazcom or lab standard files for workers reference?   

 

2.  And can they cite if the old MSDSs are for legacy products if the manufacturer no longer makes the product or is out of business?

 

3.  What are the legal issues associated with using products in the workplace for which the manufacturer no longer claims liability?

 

I'm desperate for some kind of legal or OSHA guidance on this for some theater shops where we have workers.

Monona

M. Rossol, President
Arts, Crafts & Theater Safety
181 Thompson St., #23
New York NY 10012

 

 

 

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--

Margaret A. Rakas, Ph.D.
Lab Safety & Compliance Director
Clark Science Center

Smith College
413-585-3877 (p)

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