DCHAS-L Archives, Nov 3, 2022 - Re: [DCHAS-L] Fire extinguisher use

DCHAS-L Discussion List Archive

Previous by Date

Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Fire extinguisher use

Date: Nov 3, 2022 13:52 UTC

Author: Alex Hagen <fischera**At_Symbol_Here**UW.EDU>

Next by Date

Subject: Re: [DCHAS-L] Fire extinguisher use

Date: Nov 3, 2022 14:53 UTC

Author: Chance, Brandon <bchance**At_Symbol_Here**MAIL.SMU.EDU>

Thread context

Thread start | Previous in thread | Next in thread | View full thread

We train students to ONLY use fire extinguishers if all exit paths are blocked. We feel it is more important to tell others in the lab there's a fire, evacuate and pull the fire alarm. We do have some graduate students, but are dealing mostly with an undergraduate population.

So with an oil bath fire, for example, you're going to spray hot liquid on fire around the fume hood, possibly making the fire worse. We had an oil bath fire (apparatus was in the hood) and afterward the faculty member was beating herself up for not using the extinguisher, since there was some damage to the hood (easily repaired). One of the fire fighters pointed this out to her, and said "we're trained to do this, we see it in many different settings, and we have the training and equipment to modify what we're doing if necessary." He also pointed out that if the pyrex dish holding the oil cracked, you'd have hot liquid on fire cascading out of the fume hood onto the floor. Hadn't thought of that one...

In addition, I have been told that most fire extinguishers (in our labs, anyway) have between 10-30 seconds of charge. That's not a lot for a chemical fire. Also, a fire can double in size every 60 seconds. It can get out of control quickly. And if you're anyone with poor hand strength, it may be difficult to grab an extinguisher, hold it and sweep while squeezing the levers.

If a fire can be quickly smothered, that's an option but is likely to be more of a bio-lab thing in my experience. They're flaming a spreader, then put it into a beaker with some ethanol. Have a larger beaker right there, with no extraneous combustibles or flammables around, and put the larger beaker over the smaller. But again, this is a judgement call that I'm not sure I'd want a relatively inexperienced 18-23 year old to feel any pressure to make...

Lastly, when you tell them "you can use the fire extinguisher to put out a fire if you feel comfortable/able to handle it"-- they are so afraid of making mistakes and looking stupid to others--or they don't want to make a fuss by pulling the alarm, or want to save the equipment/their experiment--there's pressure there that may not be in anyone's best interest.

So I am VERY comfortable with our policy, which DOES permit use by faculty and staff IF someone has been sent to pull the fire alarm, evacuate, and call our emergency number. I think 'waste basket' fires have pretty much disappeared since there's no smoking in labs, and that's the only time I'd feel like you had a solid chance of not making the fire worse in a lab setting.

My two cents, not legal, business or professional advice, just sharing our policy and why it works for us...

Margaret

On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 9:37 AM David C. Finster <dfinster**At_Symbol_Here**wittenberg.edu> wrote:

It has come to my attention (anecdotally) that some academic institutions, as a matter of local policy, forbid students to use fire extinguishers. I am thinking more of research, than teaching, labs in this regard. I think this is a wrong-headed policy since some small fires can be easily extinguished using fire extinguishers (usually ABC) that are required to be in labs. Extinguishers are designed for use (using the PASS method) by untrained persons - although I would always argue for hands-on training. I would not favor the policy that requires extinguisher use (as this could lead someone attempting to inappropriately fight a “too large” fire) but forbidding use seems foolish.

I ask the list: 1) How common (do you think) is the policy of forbidding use? and 2) what are the arguments for this “no use” policy?

Dave

David C. Finster
Professor Emeritus, Department of Chemistry
Wittenberg University

--- For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org Follow us on Twitter @acsdchas

Margaret A. Rakas, Ph.D.
Lab Safety & Compliance Director
Clark Science Center
413-585-3877 (p)

--- For more information about the DCHAS-L e-mail list, contact the Divisional membership chair at membership**At_Symbol_Here**dchas.org Follow us on Twitter @acsdchas

Interactive Learning Paradigms, Incorporated

DCHAS-L Discussion List Archive

Previous by Date

Next by Date